There is something you are forgetting, and that is that there is only one God Almighty, only one Everlasting Father, and only one Counselor.
There is only one of those, and, it is only said to God the Father and Jesus Christ. They are one, and one means ‘the same’.
You said above "that there is only one God Almighty" and applies to Jesus according to Isaiah 9:6, this is UNTRUE, Isaiah 9:6 states "mighty God" and not "almighty God", there is a huge difference between mighty and almighty my friend. You are correct in saying there is only one almighty God, but you are incorrect in assuming there is only one Everlasting Father, and only one Counselor, the verse does not state there is only one of these so it is wrong of you to assume there is only one person referred to as those titles.
In John 8:39 the Jews say to Jesus
“Our father is Abraham”, then two verses later in v41 they state to Jesus
"We were not born from immorality; we have one Father, God". Did the Jews think Abraham was their God, no. They used the word
Father within a matter of seconds in two completely different senses, what's more the Jews had more than two fathers, they had three, namely, God, Abraham, and their own biological father. The first man Adam could also be referred to our Father, or grandest-father since all mankind came from him, this parallels why the Jews called Abraham their Father as all Jews descend from Abraham. As we know Adam led man into sin and death, Jesus, however, took Adam place and sacrificed his life in behalf of what Adam lost, Jesus thus became Adam's replacement, hence why the bible states that Jesus is the
"last Adam" (see 1 Cor 15:45). As Adam is the Father of mankind (in the same way Abraham are all Jews Father as they all descend from him) and Jesus has now taken his place, lives eternally, being referred to as the "last Adam", Jesus is our "eternal Father". This is why Isaiah 9 uses
future tense words, "he will be called eternal Father" because at that time he had not come to earth and died for us replacing Adam as the "last Adam".
You completely ignored my last point, the verse is speaking of Jesus, no doubt, but it uses future tense words
"Jesus will be called Eternal Father"and not
"Jesus is called eternal Father". Jesus was NOT the "eternal Father" at the time of Isaiah 9:6 being written, the context is clear, you can't just ignore it and claim something the verse clearly isn't expressing. Take scripture for what it says and not for what you want it to say. Deal with my point or admit you can't, don't just throw more scriptures into the mix as that doesn't explain the issue I've raised.
You are confused, for I know the scriptures say there are ‘gods’.
So try again.
lol I'm confused, you are the confused one my friend. Neither Ancient Hebrew nor ancient Greek uses capitalization as it does in English, there is no distinction between God and god in the manuscripts, it is only when the texts are translated into English that translators use capitalization at their discretion to show when and who they think is being spoken about. Generally, when they believe the "God of the bible" is being spoken about they use a capital G, God. But again, there is no such distinction in the original texts, 2 Cor 4:4 called Satan "THE GOD" in exactly the same way John 20:28 calls Jesus "THE GOD", there is no grammatical difference whatsoever, the only difference is translators seeing 2 Cor 4:4 referring to Satan and them thinking "we need to show a difference when calling Satan God, I know let's use a lower case g instead of a capital G". I'm not claiming that translators are wrong, I'm simply saying there is no difference according to the text.
So again, if you want to claim Jesus is called "ho theos" (the God) in John 20:28 that he is the "one God" then you MUST be consistent and also admit Satan being called "ho theos" in 2 Cor 4:4 that he too is also the "one God". The identity of the "one God" isn't simply reliant on who is called God and who isn't, there is more to it than that, this is why 1 Cor 8:6, at least to me, is so clear as there are many persons/beings called God in scripture, Satan (2 Cor 4:4), Moses (Exo 7:1), Men (John 10:34), Angels (Psalms 8:5), Jesus (John 20:28) amoung other accounts, 1 Cor 8:4-6 sums up who is the "one God" despite these other Gods existing.
(1 Corinthians 8:4-6) "..there is no God but one. For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him.."
Despite there being "many Gods", there is one God the Father.
There is only one God who is called God the Almighty, the Redeemer, the Holy One, the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the King of kings.
Only God the Father is called those things, and Jesus Christ.
Some of the titles you used above are not used solely towards Jesus and the Father. Just because the Father and Jesus have some of the same titles does not mean they are the same person, as I will demonstrate. Remember the rule, unless your argument is consistent it is neither credible or convincing.
(Ezra 7:12) “..Artaxerxʹes, the king of kings.."
(Ezekiel 26:7) “..For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘..Nebuchadnezʹzar...he is a king of kings.."
You claim that since both Jesus and the Father are the "king of kings" that they are the same person, let's apply that consistency to the two above verses, Artaxerxʹes and Nebuchadnezʹzar according to your understanding are also God too! Or maybe the title "king of kings" isn't a title reserved for one individual but instead simply refers to anyone who is a king over kings. Jesus, as appointed by the Father, is a king of kings because the Father has given him that position. The Father as the "one God" and sovereign is a King of kings as he is the God of Jesus and source of all life.
I could use the same argument over and over, in regards to God and Jesus being referred to as saviour and there only being "one saviour" (Isa 43:11) despite others being called saviour (see Judges 3:15, judges 3:9 where Ehud and Othenial are referred to as saviours), where there is only "one God" (Deut 4:35) despite many others being called God such as Satan (2 Cor 4:4). I could even show you where Jesus is Gods
"anointed one" (Acts 4:26) and also claim King Cyrus is Jesus because he too is Gods anointed one,
"This is what Jehovah says to his anointed one, to Cyrus" (Isaiah 45:1). Again, JUST because Jesus has some titles the Father does, doesn't imply he is the Father any more than the above examples show any of the persons mentioned are Jesus or the Father. Your arguments MUST be consistent, you can't have a rule that is only true to Jesus and the Father and not others simply because you don't want it to.
NWL said:
The Bible never applies the term God to the apostles so no, I would not refer to them as Gods, nor myself.
So then your argument is false.
How? What's the point in disagreeing if you don't bother explaining why.
God's Truth said:
So you see your argument against Jesus being the one and only God the Father coming as a son in the flesh is not consistent. You can’t have it both ways---if you can say other men who are ‘gods’ and that Jesus is just one of those, then you have to prove all the other ‘gods’ can do what Jesus did and does.
NWL said:
My argument is consistent as I do not claim that when beings are called Gods/gods that they are the
same type of Gods as you infer I do. Jesus being called God is completely different to satan being called a God and Moses being called a God or the Jews being called gods. As 1 Cor 8:4-6 says, "there are many gods" and
NOT "there are many of the
same gods".
Don’t use the argument that there are other gods if you can’t apply your argument to all the other gods. How do you ever get that you can say but there are other gods, but then say you can't apply the 'God' scriptures to them?
I do not understand how you think I'm being inconsistent. Firstly, [1] please explain why I have to
"prove all the other ‘gods’ can do what Jesus did and does" if Jesus is a God and not the "one God" as you said in your first post. [2] Secondly, please explain in more detail what you meant by your above last reply, what do you mean by
"How do you ever get that you can say but there are other gods, but then say you can't apply the 'God' scriptures to them?", what argument of mine, what God scripture? Please better explain your position so I can understand what you're trying too get at.
God came as a man and died in the flesh for us. Spirits don’t die, not even spirits of men. Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh and lived in the Spirit.
Your point of
"God came as a man" is pre-supposed in relation to the discussion,
Jesus came as a man NOT as a spirit. You also say
"spirits don't die" when the bible never states this, if it does show me where it does. You said
"Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh and lived in the Spirit", again, the bible never states this, this is a pre-supposed position.
You claim Jesus was God, if Jesus was God and came to earth as Man and he died, then God died. To simply say "spirits don't die" does not explain how Jesus as a man and God was able to die.