Jesus is God !

[Ps82]

Matthew 1:23, 25
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us... And he [Joseph] knew her not her till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he [Joseph] called his name JESUS.

Jesus was identified not only as Emmanuel/God with us but else where also as a son of man and The Son of God.

IOW, Jesus was - The ONE God, the promised ONE, born as a son of man and bearing the form of God while it was without the super-natural glory. In this form of an individual God dwelt within his own creation and among mankind as the begotten Savior.

Isaiah 43:11
I [the spiritual God], even I, AM the LORD [God seen as the visible Father called The LORD of Israel]; beside me [as God the Spirit bearing my visible form named LORD] there is NO OTHER Savior.

IOW, Jesus, the man, was God in spirit and was seen bearing the glorious presence of the LORD - but the glory of Jesus was only seen as flesh.

John 3:34-35
For he [Jesus, the living WORD of God] whom God hath sent [into the world] speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him [Jesus]. The Father loveth the Son [Jesus], and hath given ALL THINGS into his hand.

 

[Clete]

One way to discover the identity of Jesus is to consider some new possibilities. Reconsider scripture no much discussed or thought about.
One, which opened my eyes, was Genesis 1: 26 God said: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."
My thoughts were triggered toward truth about God rather than the image he was forming for mankind.

QUESTION: What did I see?
Ans. God already had a literal image. ...

1. I remembered John 17 where Jesus said he had that image [iow, shared that image] with the Father before the world was and wanted to have it back. I happen to believe he knew the Father would do this but he probably prayed out loud in order to inform those listening of some truth ...
2. I remembered how Colossians 1:15 insinuates that this image belonging to God was the first born of every creature. Verse15 [Jesus] who is the IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD, [the image being] THE FIRST BORN OF EVERY CREATURE God created. You see the first born of every creature is an appositive of the noun image. IOW, the appositive restates the identity of the noun- THE IMAGE = THE FIRST BORN OF EVERY CREATURE.

This is you reading your doctrine into the text and ignoring an obvious figure of speech. If your interpretation of this verse was correct and applied consistently, it would not be the image that was the firstborn of creation is would be God the Son Himself that was created because the verse would be saying the Jesus is both the image and the firstborn, not that the image is the firstborn. The chief problem (there are many) with this is that Jesus Himself was not created but is THE Creator. Your doctrine has Jesus creating Himself, which is obviously not true.

Part of the problem is your use of a bible that is translated into an antiquated form of the English language. The New King James renders the verse more accurately...

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn OVER all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. (Emphasis added)​

Jesus is God's firstborn Son and He is OVER all creation. This, as verses 16 &17 explain, is because all things were created by Him and because He existed before all things and in Him all things consist. In other words, we know it should be "over" and not "of" (although "of" works if you pay attention to what it being said) because of verses 16 and 17. "Over" is what is being communicated here, not that Jesus created Himself.

When you read the bible, you should let the bible explain itself instead of groping for ways to prop up pet doctrines that you just made up out of whole clothe and desire to believe so that people can think you're wise.

1. The image was created for God's purposes and is not the invisible God, but rather a chosen living walking talking visible form which literally shows to eyes of men and angels that God has entered into his creation.
2. I also remembered how OT prophets described how they had seen God's presence in dreams and visions - proving just how super-natural God's OT image was for it could show up in any realm... even as the essence of the things dreams are made of.
3. I remembered how he showed up safely to people rather than a raging Shekinah dangerous full glory as once happened for Moses. Ezekiel is just one such prophet. [Ez. 1:26-28]

• He appeared to Samson's parents to talk with them and then disappeared in the flames of a fire built for cooking. [I Sam. 13:3-5; I Sam. 9-20]]
• He showed himself safely before 74 leaders of Israel and they saw God and ate a meal in his presence. [Ex. 24:9-11]

Now, if the invisible spiritual God presented his created image in the OT to represent himself visually unto men, then he certainly could have produce it once again in our natural realm. In the OT he had names like: Almighty God, The LORD, the LORD God, the Father of Israel - as in Jer.31:9; Isa 64; Deu 32; Ps 103 ...

This image of the Father LORD God was the glorious presence/image which Jesus had [shared] with the Father before the world was. A created image for God's use. [I venture to suggest that whenever one saw the Father they had seen the pre-incarnate image of the promised Savior. And, that this is probably the reason Jesus could honestly say: When you have seen me, you have seen the Father. Another time Jesus said something like this: If you knew who I am, you should have known the Father, but you have neither seen HIS SHAPE nor HEARD HIS VOICE. Yet, if you believe not what I say, at least believe the things I do.

Now why would God have created an image for himself before creation if he did not plan to use it???

Well, these revelations above just showed me one aspect of how Jesus was/is God -the I AM. He was allowed to use God's image to come in the world as Emanuel.

God does not have a created image other than Adam who was created in His image and Jesus Christ who did not have a physical body until it was conceived in Mary's womb.

He neither had a created image prior to creation nor has He ever used one other than Christ Himself.
Lastly, what you call "revelations", I call unbiblical heresy! Heresy that you use to contrive weird doctrines that no one but you (and whatever nut job taught you this nonsense) believes.

And for what purpose? Where's the pay off? What do you get out of promoting a doctrine that virtually no one else believes? NOTHING! At least nothing of any real value. What you get is a stroke to your ego that lets your pretend that God presented some secret hidden treasure to you.

 

[Clete]

Matthew 1:23, 25
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us... And he [Joseph] knew her not her till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he [Joseph] called his name JESUS.

Jesus was identified not only as Emmanuel/God with us but else where also as a son of man and The Son of God.

IOW, Jesus was - The ONE God, the promised ONE, born as a son of man and bearing the form of God while it was without the super-natural glory. In this form of an individual God dwelt within his own creation and among mankind as the begotten Savior.

Isaiah 43:11
I [the spiritual God], even I, AM the LORD [God seen as the visible Father called The LORD of Israel]; beside me [as God the Spirit bearing my visible form named LORD] there is NO OTHER Savior.

IOW, Jesus, the man, was God in spirit and was seen bearing the glorious presence of the LORD - but the glory of Jesus was only seen as flesh.

John 3:34-35
For he [Jesus, the living WORD of God] whom God hath sent [into the world] speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him [Jesus]. The Father loveth the Son [Jesus], and hath given ALL THINGS into his hand.

No one needs your help to read the bible. Your additions are just you reading your doctrine into the text.

This is EXACTLY the way David Koresh and Yahweh Ben Yahweh formulated their doctrine. Indeed, this is how Augustine and Calvin did their doctrine as well, although not to such a degree as the cultists. The point being is that you are wrong for the same reason as they. You simply do not get to decide in advance what you desire to believe and then start reading that belief into any text you can figure out a way to read it into. If that were valid, there would be no way to ever falsify any wild-eyed doctrine that any nut job wanted to conjure up.

Here's just a handful of doctrines that people calling themselves Chrisitan have conjured in a manner similar to what you do with the scripture....

​

1. The Adamites​

​

Belief: The Adamites were a Christian sect that believed in returning to the state of innocence that Adam and Eve supposedly enjoyed in the Garden of Eden before the Fall. They practiced nudism during their worship services, claiming that they were free from sin and therefore had no need for clothing.​

​

2. The Flagellants​

​

Belief: During the Black Death in Europe (1347–1351), a group known as the Flagellants emerged, who believed that self-inflicted pain through whipping could atone for sins. They would march through towns, publicly whipping themselves to seek God's mercy and avert the plague.​

​

​

3. Cathars' Dualism​

​

Belief: The Cathars, a medieval Christian sect, believed in a dualistic universe where two opposing forces—God and Satan—were of roughly equal power. They held that the physical world was the creation of Satan, and only the spiritual realm was pure and good.​

​

​

4. Docetism​

​

Belief: Docetism was an early Christian belief that Jesus did not actually have a physical body and only "appeared" to suffer and die on the cross. According to this doctrine, Jesus was purely divine, and his suffering was an illusion.​

​

The point being, once again, that if your method of formulating doctrine is valid then you have no grounds upon which to declare any of those, and dozens of other, doctrines false or to even argue against them at all, for that matter. Christianity is truth and we are not taught to follow the edicts of our own heart but to soberly search the scripture and find out what is the actual OBJECTIVE truth. You simply do not get to bring whatever the heck crazy nonsense you desire to believe to the bible and figure out a way to squeeze it in there and then call yourself a bible believing Christian. Doing so undermines not only the scripture but the whole of Christianity and the biblical worldview.

 

[Clete]

This is the sort of thing that Ps82's method of formulating doctrine produces.....

 

[7djengo7]

if you have questions, ask

We're still waiting for you to answer the questions I've been asking you about your ravings. So far, you have never yet answered either of them:

---

You had written:

I believe there is ONE God...

So, I asked you this question:

Do you mean you believe only one person is God? [Yes or No?]

@Ps82: <NO ANSWER, STILL>

---

You had written:

I believe Jesus was God appearing in flesh

So, I asked you this question:

By your word "God" are you referring to the Father? Yes or No?

@Ps82: <NO ANSWER, STILL>

---

I'm moving on to people who know scripture and can put things together.

You ain't movin' on with anybody, as long as you continue in your inability and failure to answer simple Yes/No questions such as these and others you've been asked about your own use of words you have chosen to use in your ravings, and as long as you continue in your lying about your glaring failure to have answered them.

 

[Insight me]

.

when we see the Scriptures mentioning Jesus as the " Firstborn "

would not this be intending to explain that Jesus is

1. the Firstborn of the dead

2. the Firstborn of the Church

3. the Firstborn among many brethren



Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:


​

if we put the entire context in our perspective what an amazing God we serve.

:16

οτι For - εν in - αυτω him - εκτισθη created - τα that - παντα all things - τα that - εν in - τοις the - ουρανοις heavens - και and - τα that - επι upon - της the - γης earth - τα that - ορατα visible - και and - τα that - αορατα invisible -


ειτε or - θρονοι thrones- ειτε or - κυριοτητες dominions - ειτε or - αρχαι principles - ειτε or - εξουσιαι authority - τα that - παντα all things - δι because - αυτου him - και also - εις into - αυτον him - εκτισται created



Manuscripts = = :16


FOR IN HIM CREATED, , THAT ALL THINGS THAT IN THE HEAVENS AND THAT UPON THE EARTH THAT VISIBLE THAT INVISIBLE OR THRONES OR DOMINIONS OR PRINCIPLES OR AUTHORITY, ,

THAT ALL THINGS BECAUSE HIM ALSO INTO HIM CREATED.​

 

[Clete]

.

when we see the Scriptures mentioning Jesus as the " Firstborn "

would not this be intending to explain that Jesus is

1. the Firstborn of the dead

2. the Firstborn of the Church

3. the Firstborn among many brethren



Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:


​

if we put the entire context in our perspective what an amazing God we serve.

:16

οτι For - εν in - αυτω him - εκτισθη created - τα that - παντα all things - τα that - εν in - τοις the - ουρανοις heavens - και and - τα that - επι upon - της the - γης earth - τα that - ορατα visible - και and - τα that - αορατα invisible -


ειτε or - θρονοι thrones- ειτε or - κυριοτητες dominions - ειτε or - αρχαι principles - ειτε or - εξουσιαι authority - τα that - παντα all things - δι because - αυτου him - και also - εις into - αυτον him - εκτισται created



Manuscripts = = :16


FOR IN HIM CREATED, , THAT ALL THINGS THAT IN THE HEAVENS AND THAT UPON THE EARTH THAT VISIBLE THAT INVISIBLE OR THRONES OR DOMINIONS OR PRINCIPLES OR AUTHORITY, ,

THAT ALL THINGS BECAUSE HIM ALSO INTO HIM CREATED.​

Completely ignored.

I literally have not and will not read one single syllable of your post.

 

[7djengo7]

.

when we see the Scriptures mentioning Jesus as the " Firstborn "

would not this be intending to explain that Jesus is

1. the Firstborn of the dead

2. the Firstborn of the Church

3. the Firstborn among many brethren



Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:


​

if we put the entire context in our perspective what an amazing God we serve.

:16

οτι For - εν in - αυτω him - εκτισθη created - τα that - παντα all things - τα that - εν in - τοις the - ουρανοις heavens - και and - τα that - επι upon - της the - γης earth - τα that - ορατα visible - και and - τα that - αορατα invisible -


ειτε or - θρονοι thrones- ειτε or - κυριοτητες dominions - ειτε or - αρχαι principles - ειτε or - εξουσιαι authority - τα that - παντα all things - δι because - αυτου him - και also - εις into - αυτον him - εκτισται created



Manuscripts = = :16


FOR IN HIM CREATED, , THAT ALL THINGS THAT IN THE HEAVENS AND THAT UPON THE EARTH THAT VISIBLE THAT INVISIBLE OR THRONES OR DOMINIONS OR PRINCIPLES OR AUTHORITY, ,

THAT ALL THINGS BECAUSE HIM ALSO INTO HIM CREATED.​

Can you maybe figure out how to make your posts to not look like ransom notes?

 

[7djengo7]

I literally have not and will not read one single syllable of your post.

Well, if you're not going to read a syllable, at least read half a syllable, seeing as he went to the trouble of emphasizing, in bold type, the first half of his word, "be":

would not this be intending to explain that Jesus is