Jesus is God !

[Right Divider]

I'm a scriptural-ist. I believe Jesus and the Father are the same God. How you ask: Jesus was God because he was given the spirit of God without measure when he worked on earth.

Nonsense! Jesus was God prior to His work on earth.

He was the invisible but audible eternal WORD of God before the world was created. He was God and was with God and was the creator for God spoke things into existence.

Another way he was God was this: The ONE God created ONE IMAGE to represent his oneness unto the eyes of created beings. He used that image more than once. How do I know? God said: "Let US [plural] created mankind after our [plural] IMAGE [singular presence] and our likeness." Right there! ONE image multiple uses by the one God for his purposes.

Jesus was one with the Father for they both, as walking talking presences among men, [Emmanuel-s] bore God's one image. The Father bore a supernatural and glorious presence, while Jesus bore that same image in flesh without all the glory, but it was the same visible FORM. In fact Jesus said: When you have SEEN ME, you HAVE SEEN the Father. THEY LOOKED ALIKE! ... Yet, with Jesus t is insinuated: There was noting comely about him to make men know he was the Son of God.

Massive confusion on your part.

You have a serious need to understand figures of speech; like metaphor.

 

[7djengo7]

Which means God as the Messiah Son of God Emmanuel Lord Jesus worked in his day just as the Father worked in his day? But as both being God bearing God's created one presence they both worked in tandem/together to accomplish God's work among men in a literal fashion.

You're addicted to writing gobbledygook.

Now prove me wrong ... with scripture please.

Temple in Israel Noah the Ark Nebuchadnezzar Babylon Jesus Herod Paul.

Now prove me wrong...with Scripture, please.

 

[7djengo7]

Which means God as the Messiah Son of God Emmanuel Lord Jesus worked in his day just as the Father worked in his day?

I don't understand your "question".

The gibberish you regularly post just goes to show how much of a farce are your exercises in "sentence diagramming" on scraps of paper.

 

[7djengo7]

if you would attempt to read the truth from Scripture

I will help you

How much more clear can God be???

Such sanctimonious arrogance you exhibit throughout your long-winded, pompous, nonsensical ravings.

 

[Ps82]

It wasn't because they are not both God.

You and I agree that both were God.

God has no "created presence". God did create a human body for His Son.

You are incorrect. In just one example the truth is so clear. 74 men of Israel saw the LORD seated on a throne. They saw God and ate a meal in his presence and were not harmed. Just what do you think they saw Right Divider? Find this scripture, read the event for yourself, and then use scripture to tell me what they did or didn't see. Explain how God sat on a throne... Explain what it means to eat in someone's PRESENCE. Moses wrote clearly about what was taking place: They saw the PRESENCE of God, a BODY OF HEAVEN, clearly. Moses should know. He was there.

Jesus is God (He also took on human flesh to become a man).
His Father is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.

Well, we can agree on this. but I would tweak it.
1) God is The invisible eternal Holy Spirit.
2) The Father LORD God is God when bearing a visible presence [KJV: an image].
3) The WORD was God and was with God before the World was [ I suggest eternally as God with the God the Spirit]. The WORD was sent into the world in the form of a fleshly son of man... but was Emanuel/God among us as our Savior.

John 1:18 shows that John the Baptist preached that HE was God, the begotten Son.

BTW, you did not do as I asked. I ask people to show me how I am wrong by using scripture. Most of the time they don't and neither have you. Come on Right divider. Let's discuss scripture. I can give you mine.

I'm not sure why you are so confused.

LOL

 

[Ps82]

I think I've discovered three trolls. Their only job is to deny deny deny and usually with very little scripture. Funny sometimes they agree with me on things and don't even see it. My opinion is: You have come just to argue... debate ... what ever you want to call it and you are not very good at it. I'm moving on to people who know scripture and can put things together. Y'all have a good life. I pray you do love our ONE God, who is Spirit, Father, and Savior.

 

[Ps82]

You just cannot prevent yourself from double talk, can you. You are such a wolf in sheep's clothing!

I should not be having to ask any clarifying questions but I am forced to do so because you're a liar.

Is Jesus the Creator?

YES or NO.

Post a one syllable response to that question.

LOL

Meaningless drivel.


Salvation is not future, it is present. We are sealed (not "held") by the Holy Spirit which has been given to us as an earnest payment guaranteeing our safe deliverance to the Day of Redemption.

Clete wrote: "Salvation is not future, it is present. We are sealed (not "held") by the Holy Spirit which has been given to us as an earnest payment
guaranteeing our safe deliverance to the Day of Redemption."

What part of my sentence could you not comprehend? We said 99.9 % the same thing. LOL

I wrote"He has given unto believers [now] still alive the gift of the Holy Spirit to hold us [you quibble over hold us versus sealed] unto salvation...

Surely you see I believe this: Believers are human beings and we now have the Holy Spirit sealing, securing, holding us until the fruition of all promises associated with our salvation.

Yes, we are saved in this life-time! But do you know about the robes of white worn by the Saints in heavenly places? The ones who cry out "How long must we wait?"

Do you not know about the bodily glory people WILL RECEIVE in the future and the crowns they will receive and cast at Jesus's feet according to the works done in the name of the Lord when we were alive?

Yes, we are saved now... Because of the gift of the Holy Spirit we are united with Christ and HAVE RECEIVED ETERNAL LIFE plus much more, but everything is not completely manifested. That is what I had in mind when I wrote hold us unto salvation -

Thank you for giving scripture to discuss. I'm so glad we agreed on 99.8% of our wording... AND I'll try to explain more often what all I believe is included in our salvation . I so agree we are united in Jesus. Once I was inspired to worship and pray for the Lord's glory to enter our church and that many would come to KNOW the Lord. As a woman began to sing a beautiful solo during the church service, suddenly the sanctuary disappeared and I saw instead a woman dancing on an invisible heavenly plane. She dance to the song until it ended. What did I learn? Our relationship in Christ is so close that what we hear and pray is heard in heavenly places ... However I am trapped in mortal flesh. A prisoner not by choice until all the promises associated with salvation is fulfilled. Amen Jesus.

• Romans 8:11 "If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you."
• I Peter 3:18 "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit."

These are part of the promises associated with our salvation. I believe I was born with measure of life which gives my mortal body life ... but this mortal life gives out. Scripture compares this mortal measure of life to literal water. We need literal water to sustain this measure of life ... BUT, Jesus explains that he has another measure of life to give us ... the sort of spiritual life from which we will never thirst again, IOW never die. The Holy Spirit brings that measure of everlasting life to every follower/believer when they make Christ their Savior and Lord. Believers have it right away and no one can snatch a believer out of God's hand in them.

Jesus Being Raised by God the Father:

• Acts 2:24: "God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it."
• Acts 2:32: "This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses."
• Acts 3:15 "And you killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses."
• Acts 4:10 "Let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by him this man is standing before you well."
• Romans 6:4 "We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life."
• Galatians 1:1 "Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead"
• I Thessalonians 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."
• I Peter 1:21 "Who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God."

Wonderful scripture.

The Father does not have "a look". The appearances of God throughout the bible are God the Son, the second person of the Trinity and He who became and whom we call Jesus. Jesus was there in the beginning with God, Jesus was God and by Him all things we made that have been made.

You are right and wrong. How you ask: Well, God is a Spirit and no one has ever seen God the Spirit. IOW, God is invisible! BUT, God personally tells us that he will make mankind a body after HIS IMAGE ... HIS LIKENESS. And God did. God is the one that says he has an image. One invisible God - ONE image. Matches the TRUTH! Yet, God doesn't leave us a mystery. He tells us plainly that that ONE image will be used more than one. Who are they? God says "Let US make man after OUR image. Well, the Spirit is invisible so God the Spirit must have allowed the Father and the Son to appear. And so they did. The Father LORD God appeared with that image as a super-natural presence. It could be dangerous or safe to see. 74 men saw the LORD God seated on a throne. Ate a meal safely in his presence. It is said that they saw the body of heaven ... they saw God!

Eternal life is not future either, Ps82! (I absolutely despise the fact that you feel it appropriate to force people to cite a passage of scripture to address you! It should not be allowed! It's extreme hubris at best and possibly blasphemous depending on your intent.)

I didn't know I was forcing anyone. You attribute much power to me. ???? And is the choice to despise me a Christian thing to do? I was enjoying replying to your post for you do offer scripture to discuss but should I continue to discuss things with someone who despises me? Hmmm...

You either have eternal life or you don't. If you're saved you have it and you have it right now.


--------------------------------------------
The use of "ps82" as a user name is further evidence that you are not a trinitarian but are, in fact, a heretic....

LOL

Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you.'"

Hold on to your hat. You brought it up!
God said it not me. Now, who are those little 'g' gods and sons of God? Well, I offer they were angels and humans. This is not scandalous. Before mankind was sent out of the Garden and became orphans they were sons of God. Angels were also sons of God ... but they were super-natural and the term gods just shows they were different from fleshly men.

I give you a challenge. Read Ps 82 like it is a scene in a play with dialogue and characters. Then come back and tell me what you see going on. I will give you a couple of clues? Scene ONE - a courtroom so to speak with God Almighty seated there as Judge over the gods and sons of God. There is an individual on trial standing in front of God presenting his own self-defense. He is accusing everyone but himself.......
Now toward the end another individual is mentioned ... one who is 'the God who arises."

One last hint: Who is the only God you know who arose???

Word of Faith Movement:
This movement, which includes prominent televangelists and charismatic preachers, sometimes uses Psalm 82:6 to suggest that believers have a divine nature or can exercise god-like authority in the spiritual realm. The teaching is often associated with the idea that believers can "speak things into existence" and have a share in God's power.

Latter-day Saint (Mormon) Theology:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) interprets Psalm 82:6 as evidence of the potential divinity of human beings. In LDS theology, this concept aligns with the belief that humans can become exalted and eventually become gods themselves in the afterlife, a process called "theosis" or "exaltation."

New Age Christianity:
Some New Age interpretations of Christianity use Psalm 82:6 to promote the idea that all humans have a divine essence or can achieve godhood through spiritual enlightenment. This view often blends Christian elements with broader New Age beliefs.

I know nothing about any of these. I study the King James Bible. Perhaps you are spending too much time investigating those movements and not enough in King James.

Well, I do look forward to seeing your reply.

 

[7djengo7]

John 1:18 shows that John the Baptist preached that HE was God, the begotten Son.

• By your pronoun "HE" are you referring to the Father? Yes or No?
• By your pronoun "HE" are you referring to the Son? Yes or No?

Have fun stonewalling against these questions, and lying about your stonewalling against them, troll.

 

[Right Divider]

You and I agree that both were God.

Good.

You are incorrect. In just one example the truth is so clear. 74 men of Israel saw the LORD seated on a throne. They saw God and ate a meal in his presence and were not harmed. Just what do you think they saw Right Divider?

They did not see a CREATED presence.

Find this scripture, read the event for yourself, and then use scripture to tell me what they did or didn't see.

They did not see a CREATED presence.

Explain how God sat on a throne... Explain what it means to eat in someone's PRESENCE.

They did not see a CREATED presence.

Moses wrote clearly about what was taking place: They saw the PRESENCE of God, a BODY OF HEAVEN, clearly. Moses should know. He was there.

They did not see a CREATED presence.

Well, we can agree on this. but I would tweak it.
1) God is The invisible eternal Holy Spirit.
2) The Father LORD God is God when bearing a visible presence [KJV: an image].
3) The WORD was God and was with God before the World was [ I suggest eternally as God with the God the Spirit]. The WORD was sent into the world in the form of a fleshly son of man... but was Emanuel/God among us as our Savior.

John 1:18 shows that John the Baptist preached that HE was God, the begotten Son.

BTW, you did not do as I asked. I ask people to show me how I am wrong by using scripture. Most of the time they don't and neither have you. Come on Right divider. Let's discuss scripture. I can give you mine.

LOL

You quote scripture that does not support your theory.

Please identify the cult to which you belong. That would help us understand your position.

 

[Clete]

I asked you for an explanation ... and what you gave me was not an answer. You just parroted a statement that I don't even know is true. {No other theologian ... has ever said what I said.] Seems you don't know how to a request...

I parroted nothing and responded directly to your verbatim quoted posts.

Yes, he existed always not being created as The WORD of God ... who was with God and WAS GOD the creator. I don't deny that John told the truth. The WORD was not created but the image God used to reveal himself as God among us was created by God for his use and he formed humanity an image after its likeness.

No, He absolutely was not created in anyway shape fashion or form - period. The only aspect of Christ that hasn't always existed is His physical body which was not created ex nehilo but was grown in Mary's womb just like yours was in your mother's womb.

In fact, if you would attempt to read the truth from Scripture you would find that John 1:18 tells us who Jesus/the Messiah, Emmanuel, God among us, the begotten son was. I will help you by filling in antecedents of pronouns which match the content of chapter 1 which the author John is writing about what John the Baptist taught about the Son.
18 KJV No man at any time hath seen God, the only begotten Son, which is [now] in the bosom of the Father, he [John the Baptist] hath declared him [God the only begotten Son].

You're an arrogant idiot. Anyone who reads English gets all of that from simply reading the passage. No one needs your help.

You see, Clete, before Jesus was born ... he was The WORD of God...He had not yet been called and identified as Jesus, the son of man/the begotten son of God.

Yeah, no kidding! He created the Universe and everything in it in six days.

Isaiah 43:11 is just one verse that tells you who Jesus really is when he appears on earth in flesh, with a free will, as a son of man, and only Savior to ever be.

11 KJV I, [the immortal Spiritual God], even I, AM the LORD [the one who appeared to Jacob and to Moses and 74 other rulers among Israel]; beside ME there is no SAVIOR.

See, Clete, only the God Savior will sit beside God the Father LORD on his own throne in heavenly realms.

Also, in John 17 Jesus tells us in an audible prayer before his disciples where he existed, as the WORD, before he was seen as the individual we know as Jesus the begotten Son. The same verses tell us the desires of Jesus's heart after his death on the cross. Watch closely.

4 KJV I [Jesus, the WORD in flesh] have glorified thee [Father LORD] on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had [which I shared/which I once occupied] with thee before the world was.

We understand these 2 verses by knowing the ONE God created only ONE IMAGE to represent him as the one God.

No such image was ever created. God is not created - period. Jesus is THE ONLY GOD THAT EXISTS. He is the uncreated Creator of all that exists.

God used it to reveal himself as the Father and again to reveal himself in flesh as the begotten Son.
The Father was glorious and at times was so glorious that his presence could kill a mortal. Remember how he hid Moses in the cleft of a rock as his glory passed by and he called out his NAME, The LORD, the LORD God. Then at times he could appear in a safe manner as he did to 74 leaders of Israel. So safely that they ate a meal in his presence and claimed they had seen God! Exodus 24:9-11. The glorious presence was God's super natural image. Yet, God the eternal Spirit allowed, through his permissive will, the Father and the Son to make choices.

The Spirit ALLOWED the Father and the Son to choose? Is that really what you believe? Heresy in the extreme.

Also, there is NO SUCH THING as God's "permissive will". It is an irrational fantasy, conjured as a rescue device by Augustinian theologians who love Aristotle's philosophy more than the scripture.

This made them each unique beings among men. The LORD once on a mission to destroy Sodom and G. chose to visit Abraham and even stay behind and talk with him personally while the other two angelic lords went on into S and G. Jesus once hoped to not drink his bitter cup but then chose to anyway. Obviously he had a choice but as a hero he completed his mission.

Presumes facts not in evidence.

Verse 5 mentions the glory Jesus wanted to have at some point after he died physically. As the WORD, who was God and was with God, had shared that glorious presence with the Father LORD before the world was. Whenever the Old T. LORD spoke, it was the WORD of God coming through the lips of the Father's presence.

You read a lot into the scriptures.

The book of Revelation lets us know the Father is present and our Risen Lord Jesus is present. Our Lord will even be the light that lights the New Jerusalem. I figure God honored the prayer of Jesus by that time.

You're an idiot. As if God the Father might have decided not to "honor the prayer of Jesus"! This is worse than heresy, it's blasphemy!

Do you know that it will be our glorified Lord who will introduce us/the immortal saints to that great immortal Potentate and King of Kings?

Jesus is the King of Kings.

Revelation 17:14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”​

​

Revelation 19:16 And He [Jesus - see verse13 "The Word of God"] has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.​

I Timothy 14-16. We will all be immortals by then and will not die when we behold the Father's glory or Jesus's.

That's in chapter 6 - by the way.

So who or what did they see in the Old Testament. Who did Jacob see? Who did Moses see? Who did the 74 men of Israel see? They all said they saw God ... wrested with one who was like a man. Saw God face to face. Saw God seated on a throne. He was even seen in a fiery furnace and was said to look like a son of God [You know why that was said ... because the image of the LORD and our Lord Jesus did look like that of a man. You know why I claim that? Because God explained it: Let us [plural] make man after OUR IMAGE {one image}. How much more clear can God be???

You are straining out gnats to swallow camels. It isn't that hard to understand. There is no great mystery to solve here. We are created in God's image. That single fact alone explains why God would present Himself in manner and form that is similar, albeit far superior, to our own.

 

[Clete]

I asked....

Is Jesus the Creator?
YES or NO.

This idiot responded by laughing...

LOL

There isn't anything else left to say. No actual believer would have responded in such a manner.

I did not read the rest of his post.

 

[Ps82]

No. You're a modalist.

You love labels more than scripture.

Because Jesus IS the Father, right? Meaning He is acting as the Father at one time, and acting as the Son another time, and acts as the Holy Spirit today, right?

What is so hard about this?
There is only ONE Spiritual invisible God, but even he spoke of his own essence in a plural fashion - as a us and our.
He is Spirit and He is LIFE therefore his WORD is alive. That is how the promised Messiah worked as God during creation. Yet, people in the OT said they SAW God Almighty.

Three great examples:
1. He called out his name to Moses as he passed before the eyes of Moses - The LORD, The LORD God. Exodus 33:15,17, 22,23 Exodus 34: 5,6
2. Twenty four men of Israel saw him on a throne. They ate a meal in his presence and was not harmed. They professed to have SEEN God.
Exodus 24:9-11
Jacob professed that he had seen the one God. Genesis32:29-30

Now, who did they see? Hold on to your tight caps: They SAW God! They SAW the living invisible eternal Spiritual God Almighty after this manner:
God established a way to manifest his presence visually within the creation. He spoke through a mouth. He sat in a seat. He wrestled with a man. He appeared in a fiery furnace. He appeared with his presence to the prophets in dreams and visions. His footsteps were heard in the Garden walking. This presented ALL OF GOD when he was among mankind and angels!!! Now the finite form/image/visible presence itself was not God but was a walking talking God Almighty. If you deny God could do such a thing after realizing HE turned mankind into just such a form then you limit God's ability.

Abraham and Jacob only knew the ONE God by the name they called him: God Almighty. Remember how Jacob knew he had wrestled with God but he asked what his name might be? Well, knowing that was the privilege given to Moses who was destined to write the first five books of scripture. Moses was the one who knew the named God chose for his glorious super-natural presence. Exodus 33-34. LORD/YHWH

Now you know who God is including his finite created presence; so, who exactly was The LORD. Well, He was Emanuel [God among men]. He represented all of the invisible God visually.

Question: Who was with God and was God simultaneously and participated in creation? Oh you know... The WORD, the predestined Messiah. When people saw God's presence it was representing the Spirit, the supernatural OT one who was called by men 'The Father,' AND the WORD/predestined Messiah,

It was men who called the OT presence of God The Father. Jesus later referred to him the same way. And who was the Father? God!!!!

The presence of the Father superseded the presence of the begotten Son. Neat the way God wove this truth into the society of mankind. The religious leaders knew exactly that claiming to be the Son of the Father meant Jesus was God! John 5:17-18

Just like Jesus said: When you have SEEN ME [seems my body] you HAVE SEEN the Father [the Father's presence].
Jesus could have added, I just have flesh without glory.

Just like Jesus said: When you have SEEN ME I believe the Father could have said: When you have SEEN ME you have seen the presence of the pre-incarnate Messiah. I don't say this flippantly. I say it based on truth found in John 5:37-38

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you for whom he hath sent him ye believe not.
IOW, there was a voice to be heard and a shape/image to be seen, but these guys had not had that privilege because they did not have God's word abiding in them. They did not recognize Jesus's face because they had never seen the face of the Father. The two looked alike you know. One God One image.

I'm feeding you guys with so much info based on scripture. Y'all really need to read the Book of John.

And the Holy Spirit is Him; you said above. You're a modalist.

Just hush. LOL

I asked....

Is Jesus the Creator?
YES or NO.

This idiot responded by laughing...


There isn't anything else left to say. No actual believer would have responded in such a manner.

I did not read the rest of his post.

lol

 

[7djengo7]

@Ps82's post #4,526:

I'm moving on to people who know scripture and can put things together. Y'all have a good life.

LOL

Bye, troll!

But wait...

Immediately after that, @Ps82 goes on to post more ravings:
#4,527:

I do look forward to seeing your reply.

While "moving on to other people", eh?

 

[Clete]

You love labels more than scripture.

No, he's simply pointing out that you aren't the first person to teach this nonsense.

lol

Laugh all you like. Fool.

Ecclesiastes 7:6 For like the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool.​

If you do not believe that THE God Himself, the eternally existent, uncreated Creator, the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega, didn't die for your sin, you will pay for that sin yourself in Hell forever.

Solomon was right! This is vanity (i.e. a wast of my time!)]

Proverbs 29:9 If a wise man contends with a foolish man, Whether the fool rages or laughs, there is no peace.​

You've been warned. There is nothing left that is worth my time.

Good bye!

 

[Idolater]

You love labels more than scripture.

What is so hard about this?
There is only ONE Spiritual invisible God, but even he spoke of his own essence in a plural fashion - as a us and our.
He is Spirit and He is LIFE therefore his WORD is alive. That is how the promised Messiah worked as God during creation. Yet, people in the OT said they SAW God Almighty.

Three great examples:
1. He called out his name to Moses as he passed before the eyes of Moses - The LORD, The LORD God. Exodus 33:15,17, 22,23 Exodus 34: 5,6
2. Twenty four men of Israel saw him on a throne. They ate a meal in his presence and was not harmed. They professed to have SEEN God.
Exodus 24:9-11
Jacob professed that he had seen the one God. Genesis32:29-30

Now, who did they see? Hold on to your tight caps: They SAW God! They SAW the living invisible eternal Spiritual God Almighty after this manner:
God established a way to manifest his presence visually within the creation. He spoke through a mouth. He sat in a seat. He wrestled with a man. He appeared in a fiery furnace. He appeared with his presence to the prophets in dreams and visions. His footsteps were heard in the Garden walking. This presented ALL OF GOD when he was among mankind and angels!!! Now the finite form/image/visible presence itself was not God but was a walking talking God Almighty. If you deny God could do such a thing after realizing HE turned mankind into just such a form then you limit God's ability.

Abraham and Jacob only knew the ONE God by the name they called him: God Almighty. Remember how Jacob knew he had wrestled with God but he asked what his name might be? Well, knowing that was the privilege given to Moses who was destined to write the first five books of scripture. Moses was the one who knew the named God chose for his glorious super-natural presence. Exodus 33-34. LORD/YHWH

Now you know who God is including his finite created presence; so, who exactly was The LORD. Well, He was Emanuel [God among men]. He represented all of the invisible God visually.

Question: Who was with God and was God simultaneously and participated in creation? Oh you know... The WORD, the predestined Messiah. When people saw God's presence it was representing the Spirit, the supernatural OT one who was called by men 'The Father,' AND the WORD/predestined Messiah,

It was men who called the OT presence of God The Father. Jesus later referred to him the same way. And who was the Father? God!!!!

The presence of the Father superseded the presence of the begotten Son. Neat the way God wove this truth into the society of mankind. The religious leaders knew exactly that claiming to be the Son of the Father meant Jesus was God! John 5:17-18

Just like Jesus said: When you have SEEN ME [seems my body] you HAVE SEEN the Father [the Father's presence].
Jesus could have added, I just have flesh without glory.

Just like Jesus said: When you have SEEN ME I believe the Father could have said: When you have SEEN ME you have seen the presence of the pre-incarnate Messiah. I don't say this flippantly. I say it based on truth found in John 5:37-38

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you for whom he hath sent him ye believe not.
IOW, there was a voice to be heard and a shape/image to be seen, but these guys had not had that privilege because they did not have God's word abiding in them. They did not recognize Jesus's face because they had never seen the face of the Father. The two looked alike you know. One God One image.

I'm feeding you guys with so much info based on scripture. Y'all really need to read the Book of John.

Just hush. LOL

lol

“ Suppose there are many Scriptures which indicate a distinction between the Father and Jesus.

“ Suppose there are many Scriptures which indicate some sort of equality between the Father and Jesus.

“ Only under Trinitarianism are both of these sets of Scriptures unsurprising. ”

 

[Ps82]

I think I've discovered three trolls. Their only job is to deny deny deny and usually with very little scripture. Funny sometimes they agree with me on things and don't even see it. My opinion is: You have come just to argue... debate ... what ever you want to call it and you are not very good at it. I'm moving on to people who know scripture and can put things together. Y'all have a good life. I pray you do love our ONE God, who is Spirit, Father, and Savior.

I see where two of the three thought their behavior was funny and gave me a lol. Proves my case.

 

[7djengo7]

Proves my case.

The case you have proved (and continue proving) is that you're a raving loon, a self-righteous hypocrite, a brazen liar, and a Christ-hating, anti-Trinity heretic. Now go have fun diagramming that, you negativity-emitting troll.

 

[7djengo7]

My opinion is

worthless.

You have come just to argue... debate

and, because you're on the side of error and stupidity, and thus have no argument(s) to present, you are incapable of debating. You have come just to beg for attention, and that's sad.

... what ever you want to call it and you are not very good at it.

What self-defeating stupidity from you. Out of the one side of your mouth, you spew your asinine hatred against argument and debate, which is you advertising that you consider argument and debate to be bad; whereas, out of the other side of your mouth, you tell us we "are not very good at" something you consider to be bad, anyway.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You have come just to argue... debate ...

That's......

Literally what this site is for....

I'm sorry, were you not aware?

:letsargu:

 

[Clete]

That's......

Literally what this site is for....

I'm sorry, were you not aware?

:letsargu:

If only more people would show up here to actually debate!

Instead, we get people who are wise in their own eyes who show up thinking their going to teach everyone some super deep truths and who get offended when it turns out that no one is very impressed with their personal opinions.