Jesus is God !

7djengo7

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I looked above and I have not stone-walled in answering your question.
You've stonewalled (and continue in your stonewalling) against my questionS. Not merely against just one of them. Your phrase "stone-walled in answering" is funny, too, since your stonewalling against my questions consists of your not answering them. That is, you have stonewalled in not answering my questions.

You had written:
I believe there is ONE God...
So, I asked you this question:
Do you mean you believe only one person is God? [Yes or No?]
@Ps82: <NO ANSWER, STILL>

You had written:
I believe Jesus was God appearing in flesh
So, I asked you this question:
By your word "God" are you referring to the Father? Yes or No?
@Ps82: <NO ANSWER, STILL>

There, yet again, I have documented two of the simple, Yes/No questions I have asked you, against which, even to this very moment, you continue in your stonewalling, your failure to answer them.
Recheck my replies above to you.
Indeed, your continuance in saying you have answered questions which, in fact, you have so far never answered, is you lying to me.
 

7djengo7

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You had written:
I believe there is ONE God...
So, I asked you this question:
Do you mean you believe only one person is God? [Yes or No?]
Oh, you came sooo close to answering the question!

You had written:
I believe Jesus was God appearing in flesh
So, I asked you this question:
By your word "God" are you referring to the Father? Yes or No?
Do you even know how to spell "Yes"?
 

7djengo7

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The LORD in the street with them caused the men to be spiritually blinded.
Where in the text is it written that the LORD caused the men of Sodom to be SPIRITUALLY blinded? Nowhere. Very clearly, what IS said in the text is that the angels who came to visit Lot smote the men of Sodom with blindness that rendered it difficult for them to find the door into which they desired entrance. If you wish to claim that at that moment the men of Sodom became blinded SPIRITUALLY, you're basically thereby telling us you're a loon who wishes to not be taken seriously by rationally-thinking people who have read the text, since, clearly, those rape-minded Sodomites were already SPIRITUALLY blinded up to that point in time.
 

Ps82

Well-known member
What is it about the label "trinitarian" that makes it something you even want to have applied to you? You ARE NOT a trinitarian by anyone's definition other than your own and so I don't get it, why bother with the pretense? What's the benefit of identifying with a group with which you disagree almost entirely?
Perhaps by your definition and by others I am not a trinitarian. ??? I call myself one because I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. I believe, and I think scripture bears me out, they are the one God. Clete, explain to me where I'm going wrong with my definition.
You aren't the only one to do this sort of thing, of course. I find tons of Christians who talk and live their lives like Open Theists but insist on being called Calvinists and are quick to give a hearty "Amen!" at any mention of God's immutability that is preached from the pulpit. The Branch Davidians to this day insist that they are Christians, as do the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses. Democrats desire to control every aspect of everyone's life (except for their sex lives) but insist that they are defenders of freedom. Etc.
I believe in only ONE God. I just happen to find that HE created only ONE image to represent HIMSELF within creation. Every time The LORD God [YHWH] showed up in the OT it was the visible presence [image] representing the ONE and only invisible Spiritual God. When ever Jesus showed up in flesh, he bore that same ONE and only visible presence [image] which was created by the ONEthe invisible Spiritual God so men could see that he was there.

Now, regarding the one called FATHER ... that was just another way to refer to The LORD God [YHWH]. The Father was not some new or different God, but the super-natural presence of The LORD God was the ONE God who was to be known by men to represent the FATHER of the begotten Son - begotten by the power of the ONE Holy Spirit of the ONE of course.
Perhaps that last example gives light to the motive. To the democrats, "freedom" is just a jingle. It's marketing. It's camouflage. It is the proverbial sheep's clothing on the wolf and I strongly suspect the label "trinitarian" is your woolen coat as well.
I don't know how we got to the Democrats in the conversation ... but let's don't go there. I think they are just as crazy as you do. On this we can agree for sure. Yes, I do believe in ONE God. I do believe HE created a bodily form ... which has life in it sustained by the Spirit. I've decided this is why God never wants mankind to created some image out of wood or stone after any created creature ... for HIS personal image is far greater. It is a living image and a dead image would not represent him correctly. Also images are like statues which can be torn down, spat upon, broken, burned, and mocked. Why would God want a likeness of him desecrated before the eyes of men????? Never!

Thank you for reading my post.
 

Ps82

Well-known member
You are not a trinitarian in the Biblical sense. The one true God is Father, Son and Holy Spiriy
My definition of a trinitarian is: There is one Spiritual God and he came among men by way of his image as the LORD Father and later as The begotten Son and is now among his followers as his Holy Spirit in us. I definitely believe this statement. Please tell me where I go wrong? I will stop saying I believe in all three if you can convince me that there is some nuance to the definition that makes a difference.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Why three Lords that night you ask? I don't know for sure... but I have an interesting suspicion ... They represented how the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit work together on behalf of the ONE God regarding the affairs of mankind. I am definitely a Trinitarian, but that doesn't negate that there is one God.
The problem comes when you say things like that!

They (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) do NOT work together "on behalf of the ONE God"... THEY ARE THE ONE GOD.
 

7djengo7

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Perhaps that last example gives light to the motive. To the democrats, "freedom" is just a jingle. It's marketing. It's camouflage. It is the proverbial sheep's clothing on the wolf and I strongly suspect the label "trinitarian" is your woolen coat as well.
This is true!

I sometimes point out that to say "I am an XYZ!" is not the same thing as to claim to be an XYZ. Because someone can say the word "XYZ" without actually referring to an XYZ; someone can even say "XYZ" but be referring thereby to a non-XYZ.

For a concrete example, I've seen Russellites numerous times say "I'm a Christian!" But, since by their word "Christian" they don't actually mean a Christian, but instead mean a Russellite, and thus, a non-Christian, then by their words "I am a Christian!" they're actually claiming to be a non-Christian.

And, like you say about Democrats, if you hear a Democrat saying "I love freedom!" they are therein really not claiming to love freedom, but are actually claiming to love something that is not freedom, and that is inimical to freedom. Lots of people lap it up, though ("Oh, he good guy cuz he say fweedom!"), because they do not discern between verbal forms, on the one hand, and, on the other, propositions for which verbal forms are used to express or to conceal.
 

Ps82

Well-known member
Where in the text is it written that the LORD caused the men of Sodom to be SPIRITUALLY blinded? Nowhere. Very clearly, what IS said in the text is that the angels who came to visit Lot smote the men of Sodom with blindness that rendered it difficult for them to find the door into which they desired entrance.
I'll try to be succinct but if you have questions, ask or go to the chapters and read. The events and clues begin in Gen. 18: First clue: 1.) And The LORD appeared unto him [Abraham.] Abraham saw three super-natural men and he recognized the appearance of the LORD. Abraham only uses the name LORD [YHWH] when he speaks with them. Sometime the three seem to speak in unison. vs 9: "And they said unto him, 'Where is Sarah thy wife?'" Another instance they seem to be one entity. vs 10 And HE said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son.'" This sort of exchange reminds me of, "Let's create man after our [plural] image [singular]..." Never did Abraham mention any other name for those who had arrived. He never asked the name of the other two. He bowed down to all three when he met them. In other instance created angels told people not to bow down to them. So ... ?

2.) Now there was a mission to be accomplished that night. What was it: vv. 20-21 And the LORD said, "Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I WILL GO DOWN NOW, and see whether thy have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto ME; and if not, I WILL KNOW.

Now did the LORD God lie???!!! or does God always tell the truth? I suggest the truth and yet one of the three we know as THE LORD did not go down NOW. Yet the other two did. vs. 22 And the [two] men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sod: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD." Well, what I see is that the other two DID GO right away [at once right then = NOW]. Of course, Abraham began bargaining with the third person to come to him that day.

The two super-natural men [some people refer to them with the noun angels - which simply means a created virtuous visible messenger from the ONE God super-natural in nature --- IOW a presence not of flesh. The three were all super-natural.

3.) Well, the two went earlier into town ON MISSION to stay in the streets all night for The LORD had said. It was still early and when LOT saw them he bowed down with his face toward the ground [in the same way Abraham had bowed down in vs Gen. 18:2 ...the men did not prevent him from worshiping them!!! Don't you wonder why?
Also Lot never address the two personages except by the name: "my lords." He then invited them to spend the night at his house. First they said "Nay, but abut we will abide in the street all night." Remember that was what the ONE said HE would do. Yet one of the lords stayed to talk to Abraham and the other two lords went into S & G. I purposely am calling all three 'lords' at the moment to show that I think they are closely associated and because I believe there is ONE God who uses ONE image to represent HIMSELF [our image to represent us as an emanuel - who can come into the world representing the ONE God - Genesis 2:26a]. Do you see that I am suggesting the ONE God can used his image anyway he wishes. It could be seen in visions, in dreams, out right, and I think in this case HE was seen as three lords. Do you know that Abraham never knew the name YHWH ... but he and Isaac only knew him as God Almighty. It took Moses to introduce mankind to names like I AM and YHWH.

Well anyway, two of the three lords went into town while the third stayed behind. Now, had God lied about going right away into S&G???
I think not; so, what is the mystery? My version: Lord # 1 stayed behind but the other two did what God had said: Go down NOW. Yet, when they got there they DID NOT STAY IN THE STREET ALL NIGHT AS GOD HAD SAID." What's up??? Did these two lords have freewill???

The plot continues: Later that night an angry mob went to Lot's house. What had made them angry? Why did they single out Lot's house?Why were they angry with the two with Lot??? Gen.19:9 And they [the mob] said,"Stand back." And they said again, "This ONE FELLOW CAME in to sojourn, and HE will needs be A JUDGE:

IOW, it was the third Lord who had stayed behind. He completed the mission to stay in the street ALL NIGHT to judge for sin! This allowed the other two to have freewill to go home with Lot for the third Lord could do the job all by himself.

THE MEN in the crowd being of one mind said, "Now we will deal worse with thee [Lot],than with them [the one at the door and the two inside]. And they [the mob] pressed sore upon THE MAN [the sojourner], even [upon] Lot, and came near to break the door."But the men [inside] put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut the door."

Wow, an amazing sentence up above. Two [super-natural] men put forth THEIR [plural] hand [singular] to pull Lot inside. Why is there only one hand when it says that they put forth a hand? I just think this implies that all three lords were working in unison to get the job done.

Now notice ... they did not pull the sojourner who was being manhandled by the mob!!! They left him in the street. Their Lordship and partner whom Abraham had worshiped just like Lord worshiped the two with him!!! It was the two inside who did the miracle - they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door [to Lots house]. Now, show me if you can if any created angel was ever able to do a miracle. They were messengers. These two did the miracles of God. Jesus once said something like this: If you can't believe the words I say then at least believe the miracles I do... miracles which prove he was God. I'd suggest this is an example of the same truth about the three lords who appeared to Abraham.

Now, regarding the mob that was blinded by the two inside, it seems when they were unable to see Lot's door they were still able to wander away and leave them alone. The LORD speaking to Abraham had not lied about anything. He was going down NOW and the two did. He said he would spend all night in the streets and he for he was never pulled into Lot's house. He said he was going into the streets all night and be a judge. He did and this is why the people were so angry and wanted to harm HIM and the other two.

Now, the two Lords had not done anything to make anyone angry; so, what made the mob show up at his house? Could it have been that the ONE God used his one image to come as three personages to accomplish the mission?

If you read onward in Gen. 19:13-16... You will see how the two with Lot talked about how they had come to destroy this place ... because the sins had waxed great before the face of the LORD.
How did they know that? They did not speak with the Lord who was out side at the door.

And in the morning the angels [the two lords] hastened Lot and his family lest they be consumed in the iniquity of the city.

What I see: One invisible God using his ONE created image to manifest his presence as three individuals - each having freewill, power to do miracles ... working together to accomplish a mission to judge and bring punish. All the ONE God. HE is they. THEY are he.

If you wish to claim that at that moment the men of Sodom became blinded SPIRITUALLY, you're basically thereby telling us you're a loon who wishes to not be taken seriously by rationally-thinking people who have read the text, since, clearly, those rape-minded Sodomites were already SPIRITUALLY blinded up to that point in time.
Jesus did just that miracle. He was being pressed hard by a mob who wanted to kill him I think throw him off a cliff. He was suddenly able to walk right out of the mob and they did not know where he had gone even though they could physically see and looked all around for him. I think you deny the power of God and limit him by placing human limitations on HIM.
BTW, Why do you have to call someone a derogatory name [a loon]. Can't you express your ideas without putting others down. Just saying.
 

7djengo7

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I'll try to be succinct
Succinct in your long-winded rambling, eh?
but if you have questions, ask or go to the chapters and read.
It's because I read the chapters that I know that you do not have a clue about what you're saying. Plus, I've already been asking you questions, all of which you have thus far not answered. Instead of answering them, you sit there stonewalling against them and lying through your teeth about your stonewalling against and failure to answer them. So, you saying to me "if you have questions, ask" is a pitiful joke.
BTW, Why do you have to call someone a derogatory name [a loon].
Pipe down, hypocrite. You sit there stonewalling against, failing to answer the Yes/No questions I've repeatedly asked you, and then you lie through your teeth to me about your failure to answer them: that's you being derogatory toward me. Great flick, projectionist!
 

Ps82

Well-known member
Succinct in your long-winded rambling, eh?
LOL. I only said I would try.

It's because I read the chapters that I know that you do not have a clue about what you're saying. Plus, I've already been asking you questions, all of which you have thus far not answered. Instead of answering them, you sit there stonewalling against them and lying through your teeth about your stonewalling against and failure to answer them. So, you saying to me "if you have questions, ask" is a pitiful joke.
LOL. You really get all stirred up.
Pipe down, hypocrite. You sit there stonewalling against, failing to answer the Yes/No questions I've repeatedly asked you, and then you lie through your teeth to me about your failure to answer them: that's you being derogatory toward me. Great flick, projectionist!
Well, a yes and no can come quickly. I guess you don't like the input I use to come up with my yes and no. You are really fussy. Do you want to try again for a yes or no? Maybe list your question and I'll try.
 

Ps82

Well-known member
Too much double talk.

Did the Creator die for your sins?

Yes or no!
Yes!
Praise my God and Savior. Isaiah 43:11:
I [God the invisible Spirit] even I, am the LORD [God who appeared face to face to Moses] beside ME there is no Savior.

IOW, God the Spirit is The LORD God/YHWH and is Emanuel the Savior.
One God

Clete, do you know that The ONE Spiritual God can give unto created beings things of his nature by measure. He gave humanity a measure of life ... but has not yet bestowed eternal life to us while bearing our glorified bodies. When believers die, they live as Saints in robes of white.

He has given unto believers still alive the gift of the Holy Spirit to hold us unto salvation, but not so much that we can ever be equal with God even when glorified in his kingdom.

Jesus is the only one about whom it is said - he was given The Spirit without measure. Jesus only did and said what God told him ... yet God gave him a freewill to do his work of dying on the cross or not. Jesus chose the Father's will. Thank you Lord Jesus for saving my soul.

Not only did Jesus look like the Father but he had access to the wisdom and power of the LORD God. Proof of who he was. Yet, as an individual Jesus did not commit sins, but rather fulfilled his mission, defeated Satan, and left us the gift of the Holy Spirit - holding us unto eternal life. Amen
 
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Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Perhaps by your definition and by others I am not a trinitarian. ???
Perhaps nothing. You evade the single most basic question any Christian could be asked. Not only are you not a trinitarian, I'm not sure that you're even a Christian, except in name only and even that much is given to you by yourself.

I call myself one because I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
No you don't. Even the way you've said that is loaded with meaning other than what no other Christian would even mean, never mind trinitarians.

I believe, and I think scripture bears me out, they are the one God. Clete, explain to me where I'm going wrong with my definition.
I believe in only ONE God. I just happen to find that HE created only ONE image to represent HIMSELF within creation.
No other theologian, never mind trinitarian has ever said that sentence. Jesus is NOT created, He is the Creator!

Every time The LORD God [YHWH] showed up in the OT it was the visible presence [image] representing the ONE and only invisible Spiritual God.
So what?

When ever Jesus showed up in flesh, he bore that same ONE and only visible presence [image] which was created by the ONEthe invisible Spiritual God so men could see that he was there.
Jesus has always existed and was NOT created, He is the Creator.

Now, regarding the one called FATHER ... that was just another way to refer to The LORD God [YHWH]. The Father was not some new or different God, but the super-natural presence of The LORD God was the ONE God who was to be known by men to represent the FATHER of the begotten Son - begotten by the power of the ONE Holy Spirit of the ONE of course.
The human being Jesus was begotten OF THE FATHER in Mary. He is PRIMARILY Jesus' Father.

There are 180 times that the bible refers to God as "Father". Only 15 of those are outside of the four gospels and ten of those times are in the Old Testament. Several of the Old Testament instances are in reference to a Messianic prophecy of one type or another but a few of them do indeed teach that God is our Father and Creator and so it is by no means an inaccurate use of the title but the point is that the biggest reason we refer to God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit is because of Jesus' use of the title in reference to His Father. In other words, it isn't merely "just and other way to refer to The Lord God [YHWH]". It might have been that during Old Testament times but no longer.

I don't know how we got to the Democrats in the conversation ... but let's don't go there.
Because they're double talkers. They want to appear to be something they aren't. You remind me of them.

I think they are just as crazy as you do. On this we can agree for sure.
That's good! You need to know that you are emulating their tactics only within a religious context.

Yes, I do believe in ONE God. I do believe HE created a bodily form ... which has life in it sustained by the Spirit.
He did not create a bodily form. God is perfectly well capable of allowing people to see Him when He needs them to do so without having to grab His human suit out of the closet and putting on for special occasions.

I've decided this is why God never wants mankind to created some image out of wood or stone after any created creature ... for HIS personal image is far greater. It is a living image and a dead image would not represent him correctly.
That is simple stupidity.

So wooden and stone idols were just fine and dandy up to the point when God decided to create an image of Himself that wasn't Himself, then all other created images were disallowed.

God never wants mankind to create images out of wood or stone because such things are false Gods, not because their somehow cheap imitations of the one God made of Himself!

Exodus 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me.​

Also images are like statues which can be torn down, spat upon, broken, burned, and mocked. Why would God want a likeness of him desecrated before the eyes of men????? Never!
The prohibition is not against making an image of God but against making for yourself a FALSE GOD!!! It is a prohibition of idol worship and is directed at those who hate God and have turned away from Him to worship fake gods like Baal or whatever.
 
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Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Yes!
Praise my God and Savior. Isaiah 43:11:
I [God the invisible Spirit] even I, am the LORD [God who appeared face to face to Moses] beside ME there is no Savior.

IOW, God the Spirit is The LORD God/YHWH and is Emanuel the Savior.
One God
You just cannot prevent yourself from double talk, can you. You are such a wolf in sheep's clothing!

I should not be having to ask any clarifying questions but I am forced to do so because you're a liar.

Is Jesus the Creator?

YES or NO.

Post a one syllable response to that question.

Clete, do you know that The ONE Spiritual God can give unto created beings things of his nature by measure. He gave humanity a measure of life ... but has not yet bestowed eternal life to us while bearing our glorified bodies. When believers die, they live as Saints in robes of white.
Meaningless drivel.

He has given unto believers still alive the gift of the Holy Spirit to hold us unto salvation, but not so much that we can ever be equal with God even when glorified in his kingdom.
Salvation is not future, it is present. We are sealed (not "held") by the Holy Spirit which has been given to us as an earnest payment guaranteeing our safe deliverance to the Day of Redemption.

II Corinthians 1:21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee [Greek here is "ἀρραβών". It means earnest payment - see Strong's G728].​
Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee (again see Strong's G728) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.​
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.​

earnest
noun
  1. Something given, or a part paid beforehand, as a pledge; pledge; handsel; a token of what is to come.
  2. Something of value given by the buyer to the seller, by way of token or pledge, to bind the bargain and prove the sale.


Jesus is the only one about whom it is said - he was given The Spirit without measure. Jesus only did and said what God told him ... yet God gave him a freewill to do his work of dying on the cross or not. Jesus chose the Father's will. Thank you Lord Jesus for saving my soul.
Jesus is God, the very "Author of Life" Himself! You draw distinctions that are not warranted.

Jesus Raising Himself From the Dead:
  • John 2:19-21 "Jesus answered them, 'Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.' The Jews then said, 'It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?' But he was speaking about the temple of his body."
  • John 10:17-18 "For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father."

Jesus Being Raised by the Spirit:

  • Romans 8:11 "If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you."
  • I Peter 3:18 "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit."

Jesus Being Raised by God the Father:
  • Acts 2:24: "God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it."
  • Acts 2:32: "This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses."
  • Acts 3:15 "And you killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses."
  • Acts 4:10 "Let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by him this man is standing before you well."
  • Romans 6:4 "We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life."
  • Galatians 1:1 "Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead"
  • I Thessalonians 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."
  • I Peter 1:21 "Who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God."

Not only did Jesus look like the Father but he had access to the wisdom and power of the LORD God.
The Father does not have "a look". The appearances of God throughout the bible are God the Son, the second person of the Trinity and He who became and whom we call Jesus. Jesus was there in the beginning with God, Jesus was God and by Him all things we made that have been made.

Proof of who he was. Yet, as an individual Jesus did not commit sins, but rather fulfilled his mission, defeated Satan, and left us the gift of the Holy Spirit - holding us unto eternal life. Amen
Eternal life is not future either, Ps82! (I absolutely despise the fact that you feel it appropriate to force people to cite a passage of scripture to address you! It should not be allowed! It's extreme hubris at best and possibly blasphemous depending on your intent.)

You either have eternal life or you don't. If you're saved you have it and you have it right now.


--------------------------------------------
The use of "ps82" as a user name is further evidence that you are not a trinitarian but are, in fact, a heretic....

Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you.'"

Word of Faith Movement:
This movement, which includes prominent televangelists and charismatic preachers, sometimes uses Psalm 82:6 to suggest that believers have a divine nature or can exercise god-like authority in the spiritual realm. The teaching is often associated with the idea that believers can "speak things into existence" and have a share in God's power.

Latter-day Saint (Mormon) Theology:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) interprets Psalm 82:6 as evidence of the potential divinity of human beings. In LDS theology, this concept aligns with the belief that humans can become exalted and eventually become gods themselves in the afterlife, a process called "theosis" or "exaltation."

New Age Christianity:
Some New Age interpretations of Christianity use Psalm 82:6 to promote the idea that all humans have a divine essence or can achieve godhood through spiritual enlightenment. This view often blends Christian elements with broader New Age beliefs.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Yes!
Praise my God and Savior. Isaiah 43:11:
I [God the invisible Spirit] even I, am the LORD [God who appeared face to face to Moses] beside ME there is no Savior.

IOW, God the Spirit is The LORD God/YHWH and is Emanuel the Savior.
No. You're a modalist.

One God

Clete, do you know that The ONE Spiritual God can give unto created beings things of his nature by measure. He gave humanity a measure of life ... but has not yet bestowed eternal life to us while bearing our glorified bodies. When believers die, they live as Saints in robes of white.

He has given unto believers still alive the gift of the Holy Spirit to hold us unto salvation, but not so much that we can ever be equal with God even when glorified in his kingdom.

Jesus is the only one about whom it is said - he was given The Spirit without measure. Jesus only did and said what God told him ... yet God gave him a freewill to do his work of dying on the cross or not. Jesus chose the Father's will.
Because Jesus IS the Father, right? Meaning He is acting as the Father at one time, and acting as the Son another time, and acts as the Holy Spirit today, right?

Thank you Lord Jesus for saving my soul.

Not only did Jesus look like the Father but he had access to the wisdom and power of the LORD God. Proof of who he was. Yet, as an individual Jesus did not commit sins, but rather fulfilled his mission, defeated Satan, and left us the gift of the Holy Spirit - holding us unto eternal life. Amen
And the Holy Spirit is Him; you said above. You're a modalist.
 

Ps82

Well-known member
Perhaps nothing. You evade the single most basic question any Christian could be asked. Not only are you not a trinitarian, I'm not sure that you're even a Christian, except in name only and even that much is given to you by yourself.


No you don't. Even the way you've said that is loaded with meaning other than what no other Christian would even mean, never mind trinitarians.


No other theologian, never mind trinitarian has ever said that sentence. Jesus is NOT created, He is the Creator!
I asked you for an explanation ... and what you gave me was not an answer. You just parroted a statement that I don't even know is true. {No other theologian ... has ever said what I said.] Seems you don't know how to a request...
So what?


Jesus has always existed and was NOT created, He is the Creator.
Yes, he existed always not being created as The WORD of God ... who was with God and WAS GOD the creator. I don't deny that John told the truth. The WORD was not created but the image God used to reveal himself as God among us was created by God for his use and he formed humanity an image after its likeness.
In fact, if you would attempt to read the truth from Scripture you would find that John 1:18 tells us who Jesus/the Messiah, Emmanuel, God among us, the begotten son was. I will help you by filling in antecedents of pronouns which match the content of chapter 1 which the author John is writing about what John the Baptist taught about the Son.

18 KJV No man at any time hath seen God, the only begotten Son, which is [now] in the bosom of the Father, he [John the Baptist] hath declared him [God the only begotten Son].

You see, Clete, before Jesus was born ... he was The WORD of God...He had not yet been called and identified as Jesus, the son of man/the begotten son of God.

Isaiah 43:11 is just one verse that tells you who Jesus really is when he appears on earth in flesh, with a free will, as a son of man, and only Savior to ever be.


11 KJV I, [the immortal Spiritual God], even I, AM the LORD [the one who appeared to Jacob and to Moses and 74 other rulers among Israel]; beside ME there is no SAVIOR.

See, Clete, only the God Savior will sit beside God the Father LORD on his own throne in heavenly realms.


Also, in John 17 Jesus tells us in an audible prayer before his disciples where he existed, as the WORD, before he was seen as the individual we know as Jesus the begotten Son. The same verses tell us the desires of Jesus's heart after his death on the cross. Watch closely.

4 KJV
I [Jesus, the WORD in flesh] have glorified thee [Father LORD] on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had [which I shared/which I once occupied] with thee before the world was.

We understand these 2 verses by knowing the ONE God created only ONE IMAGE to represent him as the one God. God used it to reveal himself as the Father and again to reveal himself in flesh as the begotten Son. The Father was glorious and at times was so glorious that his presence could kill a mortal. Remember how he hid Moses in the cleft of a rock as his glory passed by and he called out his NAME, The LORD, the LORD God. Then at times he could appear in a safe manner as he did to 74 leaders of Israel. So safely that they ate a meal in his presence and claimed they had seen God! Exodus 24:9-11. The glorious presence was God's super natural image. Yet, God the eternal Spirit allowed, through his permissive will, the Father and the Son to make choices. This made them each unique beings among men. The LORD once on a mission to destroy Sodom and G. chose to visit Abraham and even stay behind and talk with him personally while the other two angelic lords went on into S and G. Jesus once hoped to not drink his bitter cup but then chose to anyway. Obviously he had a choice but as a hero he completed his mission.

Verse 5 mentions the glory Jesus wanted to have at some point after he died physically. As the WORD, who was God and was with God, had shared that glorious presence with the Father LORD before the world was. Whenever the Old T. LORD spoke, it was the WORD of God coming through the lips of the Father's presence.

The book of Revelation lets us know the Father is present and our Risen Lord Jesus is present. Our Lord will even be the light that lights the New Jerusalem. I figure God honored the prayer of Jesus by that time.

Do you know that it will be our glorified Lord who will introduce us/the immortal saints to that great immortal Potentate and King of Kings? I Timothy 14-16. We will all be immortals by then and will not die when we behold the Father's glory or Jesus's.

The human being Jesus was begotten OF THE FATHER in Mary. He is PRIMARILY Jesus' Father.

There are 180 times that the bible refers to God as "Father". Only 15 of those are outside of the four gospels and ten of those times are in the Old Testament. Several of the Old Testament instances are in reference to a Messianic prophecy of one type or another but a few of them do indeed teach that God is our Father and Creator and so it is by no means an inaccurate use of the title but the point is that the biggest reason we refer to God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit is because of Jesus' use of the title in reference to His Father. In other words, it isn't merely "just and other way to refer to The Lord God [YHWH]". It might have been that during Old Testament times but no longer.


Because they're double talkers. They want to appear to be something they aren't. You remind me of them.


That's good! You need to know that you are emulating their tactics only within a religious context.


He did not create a bodily form. God is perfectly well capable of allowing people to see Him when He needs them to do so without having to grab His human suit out of the closet and putting on for special occasions.
So who or what did they see in the Old Testament. Who did Jacob see? Who did Moses see? Who did the 74 men of Israel see? They all said they saw God ... wrested with one who was like a man. Saw God face to face. Saw God seated on a throne. He was even seen in a fiery furnace and was said to look like a son of God [You know why that was said ... because the image of the LORDand our Lord Jesus did look like that of a man. You know why I claim that? Because God explained it: Let us [plural] make man after OUR IMAGE {one image}. How much more clear can God be???
 

Ps82

Well-known member
The problem comes when you say things like that!

They (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) do NOT work together "on behalf of the ONE God"... THEY ARE THE ONE GOD.
Then why did Jesus say this? John 5:17 My Father worketh hitherto and I work.

Which means God as the Messiah Son of God Emmanuel Lord Jesus worked in his day just as the Father worked in his day? But as both being God bearing God's created one presence they both worked in tandem/together to accomplish God's work among men in a literal fashion.

Now prove me wrong ... with scripture please.
 

Ps82

Well-known member
No. You're a modalist.
Because Jesus IS the Father, right? Meaning He is acting as the Father at one time, and acting as the Son another time, and acts as the Holy Spirit today, right?


And the Holy Spirit is Him; you said above. You're a modalist. I totally agree that Jesus and the Father are one? How you ask: Jesus was given the spirit of God without it being measured out to him. He was the spiritual audible WORD of God who was God and was with God.


I'm a scriptural-ist. I believe Jesus and the Father are the same God. How you ask: Jesus was God because he was given the spirit of God without measure when he worked on earth. He was the invisible but audible eternal WORD of God before the world was created. He was God and was with God and was the creator for God spoke things into existence.

Another way he was God was this: The ONE God created ONE IMAGE to represent his oneness unto the eyes of created beings. He used that image more than once. How do I know? God said: "Let US [plural] created mankind after our [plural] IMAGE [singular presence] and our likeness." Right there! ONE image multiple uses by the one God for his purposes.

Jesus was one with the Father for they both, as walking talking presences among men, [Emmanuel-s] bore God's one image. The Father bore a supernatural and glorious presence, while Jesus bore that same image in flesh without all the glory, but it was the same visible FORM. In fact Jesus said: When you have SEEN ME, you HAVE SEEN the Father. THEY LOOKED ALIKE! ... Yet, with Jesus t is insinuated: There was noting comely about him to make men know he was the Son of God.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Then why did Jesus say this? John 5:17 My Father worketh hitherto and I work.
It wasn't because they are not both God.
Which means God as the Messiah Son of God Emmanuel Lord Jesus worked in his day just as the Father worked in his day? But as both being God bearing God's created one presence they both worked in tandem/together to accomplish God's work among men in a literal fashion.
God has no "created presence". God did create a human body for His Son.
Now prove me wrong ... with scripture please.
Jesus is God (He also took on human flesh to become a man).
His Father is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.

I'm not sure why you are so confused.
 
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