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Jesus taught Judaism .... until He gave new revelation to Paul.
Jesus is God !
- Thread starter beloved57
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7djengo7
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Anyone willing to talk about Rev. 3:12?
Try to wake up out of your sleep, child of the night, and of darkness.
You've brought up Revelation 3:12. Well, what about it? How, exactly, do you imagine that verse is going to prop up your Christ-despising heresy? It's never going to. But let's hear it: What do you claim is being affirmed by that verse that you would say is contrary to the fact that Jesus is God? Notice that the verse does not read, "Jesus is not God". So, let's hear your "interpretation" of the verse (which, of course, will be no interpretation at all, but merely your continued, heretical raving in service of your father, the devil)?
Here's the verse:
What name is "the name of my God" to which Jesus is referring? Is it a name which is above every name?
BTW: Why do you rarely, if ever, directly reply to other TOL posters? So far, you've not even so much as once directly replied to anything I have posted.
You cann't teach me anything when you don't teach your own people.
The lousy vocabulary and mistreatment to other forum members just for not accepting your beliefs is the most convincing proof that you have no idea of the truth. When Jesus spoke about recognizing false Christians, he did not focus on beliefs, but on behavior. The one of some of you here is terrible, and others support them by putting likes on their posts, and others support them by remaining silent in front of such bad behavior.
Have you ever seen a Jehovah's Witness behave in such a vulgar way? No, right? So what are you trying to teach us? To behave just like you?
When I answer one of you, I already answer all of you, because all of you here are responsible for the same things, the erroneous beliefs and the bad behavior that your own have.
Goodnight.
7djengo7
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So far, you've not answered a single question that I've asked you, you vicious, Christ-despising, Bible-despising liar. Answer the questions I've asked you, or take a hike, you deranged, Satan-worshiping, Russellite hypocrite.
You know that you have no argument(s), whatsoever, to present on behalf of your Christ-despising, Russellite heresy. Whom do you think you're fooling by hanging out on TOL, you illiterate troll?
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Typical. Thanks for confirming what I just said. Now you go to my ignored list ... Anyway, I am already ignoring you. You do not deserve my attention or a second of my time. Bye.
7djengo7
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What's the difference, idiot? You've never even begun to try to deal with anything that I have written to you, anyway. And now, you've chosen to run with the "take a hike" part of the "answer the questions I have asked you, or take a hike"-ultimatum I gave you, since even you know full well that you cannot support your Christ-despising heresy with any argument(s). IOW, you've miserably failed and have further embarrassed your pathetic, devil-worshiping, Russellite cause. Your telling me that you need to resort to putting me in your "ignored [sic] list" is you advertising the fact that you lose and that I win. Enjoy your chagrin.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
No it doesn't, but your post here does reflect that you are indisputably an idiot. Which is literally what my post said.
More spirit. More of an enlightened, powerful spirt. Jesus is a Messenger of God, a Messiah and as such is of a higher spiritual order than a mere human. Jesus is physically human but is a higher order of spirit than a human. Mineral, vegetable, animal, human, Messenger, God.
Less than God in the sense that Jesus is not God, rather He represents God in human form, God is transcendent and His nature is beyond human comprehension. Jesus serves the Will of God and thus reflects God from His being without literally being God.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
False dichotomy, it's both. He is God and He represents God (as the total representative for the Father, John 10:30, Jesus has the last word on our behalf, as our representative to the Father). If Jesus says, "Here's what the Father's terms are," then those are His terms. Like, "over and out." That's it. We take them or we leave them, but do not doubt that what Jesus says the Father is saying, is what the Father is really saying. When He speaks on behalf of His Father and Our Father (the Father), His Word is final (Him being the Word become man).
Except that you believe you comprehend His nature enough to say that He could not become man.
Creation itself was a work of the Trinity, almost explicitly. I mean if you're a non-Trinitarian, then for you all, this verse is yet a third example of the Father (the LORD or YHWH or Jehovah), the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit (="Breath", synonym) in one sentence, in the Bible.
Psalm 33:6
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That is all a bunch of new-age mumbo-jumbo.
Jesus is God. That is what the Bible says.
John 1:1 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
That is perfectly clear and unambiguous.
Just read your first paragraph again. You almost get it. Don't give up.
The fact that no human can comprehend the nature of God makes it absolutely and beyond any doubt,( except for those who somehow manage to turn God Himself into a victim of His own Creation ) that Jesus represents the Word of God without ever actually claiming to be God.
This notion of Jesus being God has been an absolute disaster for humanity because when Christianity flowed around the world it did intolerant and so as a tyrant, obliterating indigenous peoples and other religions, rather than as loving servants of Christ, all because of this absolutism of Jesus being God. It's the same with Islam, Muhammad being the last Prophet, which of course excludes Jesus from ever returning.
As for the Trinity, as I have said, a Trinity exists in a spiritual sense, but not in any literal sense. God is not composed of parts, but the dynamic force of God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus are essential to express the Will of God.
That is perfectly clear and unambiguous. To you, not to others who might search out a deeper meaning, so while I might be labelled as new-age mumbo-jumbo, it's good to see others reenacting Bronze Age religious understandings of the Scriptures.
7djengo7
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"Making sense" inside your own head again, are you? You sure are addicted to churning out loads of gobbledygook. It's sad that you are apparently deranged or drug-addled enough to be able to imagine that rationally-thinking people should, or even could, take your God-despising ravings seriously. Until you start actually trying to listen to and come to grips with what we've been saying to you, instead of shamelessly continuing on with your spectacle of using a public forum solely for talking to yourself, you're going to continue to be known only as the vicious, God-hating troll that you've shown yourself to be. And now, you've also just let it out that you're a Mohammedan, you Christ-hater.
way 2 go
Well-known member
Jesus never said "I am God" so people like you could deny Jesus as God and go to hell.
so you're saying historically Jesus has been accepted as God
no
the trinity is literally in the first verse of the bible
1:1 In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth.
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Your idea of "deeper meaning" is pure fantasy. The scripture is clear. You simply reject the truth.
This is an appeal to ignorance and a straw man.
NO ONE claims to FULLY comprehend the nature of God.
But that doesn't mean that we can't know ANYTHING about God.
First, your claim is contradictory (which is how we know it's false.
It has the appearance of wisdom, but when you check it against even itself, it falls apart.
Your claim, "that no human can comprehend the nature of God," falls apart, since if Jesus was just a man, and if the claim is true, it means that not even Jesus could comprehend the nature of God.
How is Jesus, who you claim to be a man and not God, supposed to be a representative of God, if He cannot comprehend the nature of God?
Second, I've pointed this out before, but I'll say it again. "Word" is a terrible translation for the word "logos" in John 1:1.
Jesus is not the "Word of God."
Jesus is the "LOGOS of God."
LOGOS means logic, reason.
God says, "Come, let us REASON together!"
With that one verse, we can understand that God is RATIONAL, which means He is able to be understood. Perhaps not fully, and perhaps there are some things we will never be able to fully comprehend, but He is rational, nonetheless, and we as rational creatures can understand that.
God certainly gives men the exact length of rope they need to hang themselves.
You need to go back to the basics, instead of jumping into the deep end without your floaters on.
It's not just a label. That's what it is.
It's contradictory nonsense that someone came up with in an attempt to elevate themselves above God.
You're committing a Historian's Fallacy. Look it up.
Jesus never said "I am God" so people like you could deny Jesus as God and go to hell. The love of Christ sure does shine through here. Accept what I believe or be damned.Jesus never said "I am God" so people like you could deny Jesus as God and go to hell.
so you're saying historically Jesus has been accepted as God
no
the trinity is literally in the first verse of the bible
1:1 In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth.
The concept of the Trinity, (Jesus accepted as God) evolved over time and became a canon of belief receiving imperial sanction at Nicaea in 325 C.E. It does not appear in the Bible as a teaching. Despite the approval of the emperor this did nothing but identify the three elements of Christian faith. The actual connection, interaction between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit remain beyond human understanding, but we do know that the Creator of the universe and all life is transcendent and not dependant upon anything, nor composed of parts, nor can the majesty of god be trivialised by imagining that said God entered its own Creation in a human form to be murdered.
The great Christian theologian and thinker Thomas Aquinas concluded that both reason and faith must be requirements in theology; and he said, in his landmark work Summa Theologica, that the three-person theory of the Trinity could not be defended in any rational or understandable way.
If there are several persons in God then there are several substances, God then is composed of parts and this to me seems heretical. Three can not become one, nor one become three. Yet a Trinity exists in the sense that the dynamic Will of God, Holy Spirit became evident in the Christ and Christ represented the authority of God before humanity.
How no idea how you see the Trinity in the first verse of the Bible.
It is not God’s form, but His metaphysical nature and spiritual attributes that He bestowed upon Jesus.
It was clear to Paul that Jesus was not God, but created in the image or likeness of God. An image is not the same thing as the original—though it may reflect the intent of the original. Further, while the Christ is suggested to exist before Jesus appears in history, even this pre-existent Christ is described as a created being, born of God. Thus a double distinction is made between God and His created likeness. No incarnation of God is implied.
Yes I understand what Logos means.
I have never said that Jesus was just a man. Jesus is a Messenger, a Prophet, a Messiah of God. This is another order of spirituality altogether than that possessed by mere humans. Jesus was both physical human and possessed the spiritual attributes of a Messenger of God. That does not in any way suggest that Jesus was therefore the incarnation of God literally. Jesus was a perfect mirror reflection the Attributes of and Will of God before human kind.
The Trinity is a human construct that is illogical when applied in a literal sense.
way 2 go
Well-known member
I know you would prefer I lie to you but sometimes the truth hurts
If Jesus is not God then our sins are not paid for
no
Genisis1
1 In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth.
26 And Elohim said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Isaiah 48
12 Listen to me, O Jacob and Israel, My called; I am He; I am the first, I also am the last.
13 My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I called; they stood up together.
14 Let all of you gather and hear; who among them has declared these things? The LORD has loved him; He will do His pleasure on Babylon, and His arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
15 I, I, have spoken; yea, I have called him; I brought him and he makes his way succeed.
16 Come near to me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent me.
Jesus never said "I am God" so people like you could deny Jesus as God and go to hell
God is spirit
John 4:24 God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth.
no
always has been three persons one God
no
shocked
7djengo7
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The council of Nicaea is in 325 AD you Christ-hating pagan.