Jesus is God !

[way 2 go]

Psalm 33:6
By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

word, Word; the LORD, the Father; breath, Spirit

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[blueboy]

Jesus is speaking here:
Isaiah 48
12 Listen to me, O Jacob and Israel, My called; I am He; I am the first, I also am the last.
13 My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I called; they stood up together.
14 Let all of you gather and hear; who among them has declared these things? The LORD has loved him; He will do His pleasure on Babylon, and His arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
15 I, I, have spoken; yea, I have called him; I brought him and he makes his way succeed.
16 Come near to me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent me.

Let me say at the outset that I accept Jesus as the Son of God, and as the Messiah.

This is God speaking here, not Jesus. What connection did Jesus have with Babylon, or with Iraq, the Chaldeans? This does not refer to Jesus, nor is it His Divine inspiration through Isaiah.

First and last, Alpha and Omega refers to the eternal state of God's Revelation. It is the Tree of Life that stands in the Garden. There were Prophets before Christ and there will be Prophets after Christ.

This is the effect of God across the ages and His use of the likes of Isaiah, Moses, Jesus to carry and present His Message in a rolling out of progressive revelation. That is why the Jews did not accept Jesus as the Messiah, or their Messiah of OT prophecy.

Jews do not accept any suggestion of the Trinity, calling it a heresy. Jesus did not usher in world peace, He Himself said that He did not come to bring peace. He did not gather the Jews back to Israel. He did not unite humanity.

In Isaiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace”. This clearly can in no way be attributed to Jesus?

It may apply and be attributed to the returning Jesus, but we will have to wait and see, or it may apply to a figure who is like Jesus.

Even Jesus Himself said in John 16:12-15,

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority

 

[Idolater]

Jesus, Peter, and Paul each named the Father, Son, and Spirit in one sentence.

Matthew 28:19 KJV
1st Peter 1:2 KJV
2 Corinthians 13:14 KJV

There are two propositions regarding the Trinity; "God is the Trinity," and its negation, that, "It is not the case that God is the Trinity."

I will use the term 'unitarian' to signify the latter proposition, and 'Catholic' to signify the former proposition.

Both of these signifiers 'unitarian' and 'Catholic' are examples of the 'straw man' informal fallacy. I say that now, so that all those Unitarians who wish to argue will know already that I already admit that I've committed a straw man fallacy, and the same for all those Trinitarians who are not Catholic.

Straw man.

That the Father, Son, and Spirit are enumerated in one sentence shows distinction between the Father, Son, and Spirit. That there are three of these sentences in the New Testament underscores that distinction. That these three sentences originated from Jesus, Peter, and Paul further underscores it.

Unitarians themselves admit that there is a distinction between the Father and the Son, and also they admit that the Spirit and God are united in some way.

Therefore "God is the Trinity."

I know what you're going to say---straw man.

Psalm 33:6
By the word of the LORD (the Father) were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

1st John 4
No man hath seen God (the Father) at any time. If we love one another, God (the Father) dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him (the Father), and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father [sic] sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God (the Father), God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1st John 5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God (the Father)? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

 

[Idolater]

Just read your first paragraph again. You almost get it. Don't give up.

We can't both be right. If you think I "almost get it," then you almost get it, if I'm right.

Stands to reason. It means that you're pretty close to the truth. Figure out what you need to do to make it happen, and do it. Convert to Catholicism, take your mind off this thing. His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Not difficult and heavy.

The fact that no human can comprehend the nature of God makes it absolutely and beyond any doubt,( except for those who somehow manage to turn God Himself into a victim of His own Creation ) that Jesus represents the Word of God without ever actually claiming to be God.

He is uniquely the Son of God, and not a son of God.

This notion of Jesus being God has been an absolute disaster for humanity because when Christianity flowed around the world it did intolerant and so as a tyrant, obliterating indigenous peoples and other religions, rather than as loving servants of Christ, all because of this absolutism of Jesus being God. It's the same with Islam, Muhammad being the last Prophet, which of course excludes Jesus from ever returning.

Pagans worshiped fake deities, it's only reasonable that eventually their temples would crumble in disrepair from lack of use. And Islam believes the Lord Jesus will return in judgment, just like we do. I don't know where you get your information.

As for the Trinity, as I have said, a Trinity exists in a spiritual sense, but not in any literal sense. God is not composed of parts, but the dynamic force of God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus are essential to express the Will of God.

Straw man, God is not "composed" at all. He is One undivided Trinity. He is three Persons, One substance, as demonstrated /proven /shown in multiple brief and clear Biblical passages itt. See above.

 

[7djengo7]

Let me say at the outset

The outset? What's that even supposed to mean? You already wrote like 50 posts in this thread. So, what are you just now setting out upon?

that I accept Jesus as the Son of God, and as the Messiah.

Saying it does not make it so. You've already made clear your self-righteous rejection of Him and His work of sin-atonement on the cross of Calvary when you so ridiculously told us (falsely) you will pay for all your own sin.

 

[Right Divider]

Let me say at the outset that I accept Jesus as the Son of God, and as the Messiah.

Good job.

First and last, Alpha and Omega refers to the eternal state of God's Revelation.

More new-age mumbo-jumbo.

It is the Tree of Life that stands in the Garden. There were Prophets before Christ and there will be Prophets after Christ.

By "Christ" here, you are referring to His INCARNATION. Jesus is God, the Creator, Who has always existed.

John 17:5 (AKJV/PCE)
(17:5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus had glory with His Father BEFORE the WORLD WAS.

This is the effect of God across the ages and His use of the likes of Isaiah, Moses, Jesus to carry and present His Message in a rolling out of progressive revelation. That is why the Jews did not accept Jesus as the Messiah, or their Messiah of OT prophecy.

Jews do not accept any suggestion of the Trinity, calling it a heresy. Jesus did not usher in world peace, He Himself said that He did not come to bring peace. He did not gather the Jews back to Israel. He did not unite humanity.

The Jews were often wrong.

In Isaiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace”. This clearly can in no way be attributed to Jesus?

Why not? It is all about Jesus.

It may apply and be attributed to the returning Jesus, but we will have to wait and see, or it may apply to a figure who is like Jesus.

Too bad you are so confused.

Even Jesus Himself said in John 16:12-15,

Jesus is the Creator of ALL THINGS Col 2:16

 

[blueboy]

We can't both be right. If you think I "almost get it," then you almost get it, if I'm right.

Stands to reason. It means that you're pretty close to the truth. Figure out what you need to do to make it happen, and do it. Convert to Catholicism, take your mind off this thing. His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Not difficult and heavy.

He is uniquely the Son of God, and not a son of God.

Pagans worshiped fake deities, it's only reasonable that eventually their temples would crumble in disrepair from lack of use. And Islam believes the Lord Jesus will return in judgment, just like we do. I don't know where you get your information.

Straw man, God is not "composed" at all. He is One undivided Trinity. He is three Persons, One substance, as demonstrated /proven /shown in multiple brief and clear Biblical passages itt. See above.

He is One undivided Trinity. He is three Persons, One substance, as demonstrated /proven /shown in multiple brief and clear Biblical passages itt. That's an oxymoron. Do you ever stop to think about such an incongruous possibility. Three persons, one substance? Undivided Trinity. There is no possible way to attribute such a state to God, or make any sense of this. It's the suspension of disbelief.

Islam believes the Lord Jesus will return in Judgement and so do I, though it will not be literally the same Lord Jesus, but it will be the same spirit.

Catholicism has had its day, it does not have the teachings or inspiration to remedy the present state of human affairs.

 

[Right Divider]

He is One undivided Trinity. He is three Persons, One substance, as demonstrated /proven /shown in multiple brief and clear Biblical passages itt. That's an oxymoron.

Thanks for letting us know.... But.... you're wrong!

Do you ever stop to think about such an incongruous possibility.

Yes... but it's not.

Three persons, one substance?

Yep!

Undivided Trinity.

Yep!

There is no possible way to attribute such a state to God, or make any sense of this. It's the suspension of disbelief.

Was Jesus lying when He said that He would raise Himself from the dead?

Thanks for playing.

 

[blueboy]

Thanks for letting us know.... But.... you're wrong!

Yes... but it's not.

Yep!

Yep!


Was Jesus lying when He said that He would raise Himself from the dead?

Thanks for playing.

Was Jesus lying when He said that He would raise Himself from the dead?

Not at all, but we all know dead bodies do not come back to life. Jesus was raised from the dead in the sense that the reality of Christ was His Teachings. After three days of fear and abject grief the disciples began to teach as they had been taught and the reality of Christ, His Teachings, rose from death and became the dominant religion on earth.

That is not to say that Christ did not appear to the disciples after His death, but His body went the way of all bodies after death.

As for the Trinity, I appreciate how these beliefs are hard to shake once they get rusted on, regardless of how nonsensical they may be. 3 is not 1 and 1 is not 3.

God, the Divine inspiration from God and the perfect human to Teach and represent God, Christ, is a necessary trinity, without resorting to the heresy of claiming God is literally triune, yet one. Your own posts show how flawed such a belief is.

 

[Idolater]

Was Jesus lying when He said that He would raise Himself from the dead?

Not at all

Except ... literally. Right? You don't literally think Jesus is risen from the dead (cf. Mt28:6, Mk16:6, Lk24:6 ( )), correct? You don't believe in His bodily Resurrection, do you?

, but we all know dead bodies do not come back to life. Jesus was raised from the dead in the sense that the reality of Christ was His Teachings. After three days of fear and abject grief the disciples began to teach as they had been taught and the reality of Christ, His Teachings, rose from death and became the dominant religion on earth.

Islam believes the Lord Jesus will return in Judgement and so do I, though it will not be literally the same Lord Jesus, but it will be the same spirit.

Nope, you made that up!

That is not to say that Christ did not appear to the disciples after His death, but His body went the way of all bodies after death.

As for the Trinity, I appreciate how these beliefs are hard to shake once they get rusted on

Rust scales off and ultimately corrodes into scrap, fit only for recycling.

, regardless of how nonsensical they may be. 3 is not 1 and 1 is not 3.

God, the Divine inspiration from God and the perfect human to Teach and represent God, Christ, is a necessary trinity, without resorting to the heresy of claiming God is literally triune, yet one. Your own posts show how flawed such a belief is.

He is One undivided Trinity. He is three Persons, One substance, as demonstrated /proven /shown in multiple brief and clear Biblical passages itt. That's an oxymoron. Do you ever stop to think about such an incongruous possibility. Three persons, one substance? Undivided Trinity. There is no possible way to attribute such a state to God, or make any sense of this. It's the suspension of disbelief.

The Trinity isn't like a square circle. If you believe in God, and you don't artificially and arrogantly limit Him in saying it is impossible for Him to, in any way whatever, become flesh and blood and bone, then how exactly would you think God the Father (whom we all believe in, correct?) would materialize in flesh? "The Son," is what we believe. But we don't believe the Son is merely a shadow of the Father, He is actually distinct from the Father, and not, just like the Father but with a body.

And the Scripture names the distinction. He is referred to as the Word of God the Father. He was there in the beginning (Jn1:2), but in what sense was He there in the beginning. Remember the Son is not just some abstract principle incarnate. He is God the Father incarnate, in some sense.

The sense in which He is identical with the Father incarnate is called substance. He is the same substance as God the Father, "con-substantial" with God the Father. Yet He is distinct, the distinction is called His Person. He is distinct from God the Father, and the demonstration of this is His free will. He could choose to defy His Father and Our Father; He never did, all the way to his torturous (cf. the absolute human right against cruel and unusual punishment) sacrificial death, His body and blood offered upon the altar of the cross, to the Father.

You just don't believe in Him, is all. It's not like, you believe in God the Father, and I believe in God the Father, and we each worship Him in different ways, and we understand Him in different ways, and that's it. You just don't believe in Him, at all.

 

[Idolater]

Catholicism has had its day, it does not have the teachings or inspiration to remedy the present state of human affairs.

Catholicism doesn't just pretend to worship God the Father, like how so many paganisms wound up eventually, slowly but surely, pretending to worship their deities. Those paganisms died because of this phenomenon.

You just seem to not get this. We actually believe in God the Father, we believe in Jesus, we believe in the Holy Spirit; we also believe in going to Mass weekly, and attempting to walk the ethically straight and narrow, all because of both our reason, and our logically prior belief in God the Father and in His Son.

We don't just say we believe in His Real Presence in the sacraments, and in His Resurrection, and that He will come again to judge the living and the dead. We believe that, in a way that you don't believe in Shakespeare or Aristotle or Aquinas, you don't believe the authors of these classical works are God, but we believe the Author of the Bible is God the Holy Spirit, as we say, "He has spoken through the prophets."

I don't know how much clearer I can be. You don't understand, because you don't understand. And that's just your own arrogance getting in the way.

 

[Right Divider]

Was Jesus lying when He said that He would raise Himself from the dead?

Not at all, but we all know dead bodies do not come back to life.

That's something that an unbeliever would say.

Luke 20:27 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:27) ¶ Then came to [him] certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,

Paul makes it clear that Christ was raised and that we will also be.
1Cor 15:12-19 (AKJV/PCE)
(15:12) Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? (15:13) But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: (15:14) And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain. (15:15) Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. (15:16) For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: (15:17) And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. (15:18) Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. (15:19) If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Jesus was raised from the dead in the sense that the reality of Christ was His Teachings.

Absolute nonsense.

John 20:26-29 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:26) ¶ And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you. (20:27) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (20:28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (20:29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.

Jesus made sure that Thomas (and us through the scripture) KNEW that He was resurrected bodily.

After three days of fear and abject grief the disciples began to teach as they had been taught and the reality of Christ, His Teachings, rose from death and became the dominant religion on earth.

The majority of the world is not "Christian".

That is not to say that Christ did not appear to the disciples after His death, but His body went the way of all bodies after death.

Nope. You are an unbelieving heretic that claims to "believe" is a fake Christ.

As for the Trinity, I appreciate how these beliefs are hard to shake once they get rusted on, regardless of how nonsensical they may be. 3 is not 1 and 1 is not 3.

Appeal to the stone is a fallacy.
The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.

ONE God; three persons.

God, the Divine inspiration from God and the perfect human to Teach and represent God, Christ, is a necessary trinity, without resorting to the heresy of claiming God is literally triune, yet one. Your own posts show how flawed such a belief is.

Christ is God in the flesh. No matter how many lies you tell.

 

[7djengo7]

we all know dead bodies do not come back to life.

Nobody knows dead bodies do not come back to life, because it's false that dead bodies don't come back to life. It's sad, you see, but the fact is you're a God-denying Sadducee.

Jesus was raised from the dead in the sense that the reality of Christ was His Teachings.

You're phrase, "the reality of Christ was His Teachings," is nonsensical. Being the Christ-hater you are, you've just asserted that Jesus was raised from the dead in no sense at all. IOW, you've just asserted more heretical, anti-Bible falsehood. Jesus indeed was raised/raised Himself from the dead in the sense that He, having died by crucifixion at Calvary and having been buried in Joseph of Arimathea's set-aside tomb, on the third day bodily raised Himself from death and bodily vacated that sepulchre, and was subsequently seen alive, bodily, and no longer dead, by many witnesses, whose blessed testimony you daily reject and spit on in your raving, Christ-hating posts on TOL.

After three days of fear and abject grief the disciples began to teach as they had been taught and the reality of Christ, His Teachings, rose from death and became the dominant religion on earth.

"the reality of Christ" rose from death?
"His Teachings" rose from death?

Instead of continuing to mindlessly churn out stuff like that, you should try to think of something to say that is cognitively meaningful.

 

[way 2 go]

Let me say at the outset that I accept Jesus as the Son of God, and as the Messiah.

your jesus is dead and a liar and I'm guessing you're a cultist
The real Jesus is alive and God

This is God speaking here, not Jesus.

God the father ,God the Holy Spirit
sent
preincarnate Jesus God

preincarnate Jesus is speaking here:

Isaiah 48
12 Listen to me, O Jacob and Israel, My called; I am He; I am the first, I also am the last.
13 My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I called; they stood up together.
14 Let all of you gather and hear; who among them has declared these things? The LORD has loved him; He will do His pleasure on Babylon, and His arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
15 I, I, have spoken; yea, I have called him; I brought him and he makes his way succeed.
16 Come near to me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent me.

 

[blueboy]

your jesus is dead and a liar and I'm guessing you're a cultist
The real Jesus is alive and God


God the father ,God the Holy Spirit
sent
preincarnate Jesus God

preincarnate Jesus is speaking here:

Isaiah 48
12 Listen to me, O Jacob and Israel, My called; I am He; I am the first, I also am the last.
13 My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I called; they stood up together.
14 Let all of you gather and hear; who among them has declared these things? The LORD has loved him; He will do His pleasure on Babylon, and His arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
15 I, I, have spoken; yea, I have called him; I brought him and he makes his way succeed.
16 Come near to me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent me.

It's okay, relax. You are entitled to believe whatever you like. Jesus-God, preincarnate-Jesus, if it means something to you then that's fine.

 

[7djengo7]

It's okay, relax. You are entitled to believe whatever you like. Jesus-God, preincarnate-Jesus, if it means something to you then that's fine.

Here, instead of trying to address the Scripture passage @way 2 go showed you, which manifestly opposes your Christ-hating heresy, you once again resort to doing all you know how to do: trolling.

 

[blueboy]

Nobody knows dead bodies do not come back to life, because it's false that dead bodies don't come back to life. It's sad, you see, but the fact is you're a God-denying Sadducee.

You're phrase, "the reality of Christ was His Teachings," is nonsensical. Being the Christ-hater you are, you've just asserted that Jesus was raised from the dead in no sense at all. IOW, you've just asserted more heretical, anti-Bible falsehood. Jesus indeed was raised/raised Himself from the dead in the sense that He, having died by crucifixion at Calvary and having been buried in Joseph of Arimathea's set-aside tomb, on the third day bodily raised Himself from death and bodily vacated that sepulchre, and was subsequently seen alive, bodily, and no longer dead, by many witnesses, whose blessed testimony you daily reject and spit on in your raving, Christ-hating posts on TOL.

"the reality of Christ" rose from death?
"His Teachings" rose from death?

Instead of continuing to mindlessly churn out stuff like that, you should try to think of something to say that is cognitively meaningful.

you're a God-denying Sadducee - that's a new one. I'm not a member of a Jewish sect, nor do I deny the existence of spirits. I think we each have a unique spirit. As for dead bodies, I think it fair to say that the dead do not come back to life and why would they want to.

Being the Christ-hater you are - yes, this one has been used before rather carelessly I might add, considering how much I venerate the station of Christ and regard Christ as the Son of God and the Messenger of God. Differences of opinion do not make anybody, even me, a Christ hater.

If Christ had lived and never uttered a word you would never have known He lived. But by His Words do you know Christ, therefore the true power of Christ was His Words, His Teachings. What rose from death was His Teachings and they are still with us today, whereas His body has gone the way of all bodies. The spirit of Christ is indestructible, His body was just a body.

Instead of continuing to mindlessly churn out stuff like that, you should try to think of something to say that is cognitively meaningful. Translation, you must agree with me. I'm sorry, I don't. Christianity has been held captive by superstition and dogma for far too long. There is only one reality. As I mentioned, Christ could have appeared before Whomever He wished after His death, but His true power was His Words and Teachings which are still with us today.

 

[blueboy]

That's something that an unbeliever would say.

Luke 20:27 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:27) ¶ Then came to [him] certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,

Paul makes it clear that Christ was raised and that we will also be.
1Cor 15:12-19 (AKJV/PCE)
(15:12) Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? (15:13) But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: (15:14) And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain. (15:15) Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. (15:16) For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: (15:17) And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. (15:18) Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. (15:19) If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Absolute nonsense.

John 20:26-29 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:26) ¶ And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you. (20:27) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (20:28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (20:29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.

Jesus made sure that Thomas (and us through the scripture) KNEW that He was resurrected bodily.

The majority of the world is not "Christian".

Nope. You are an unbelieving heretic that claims to "believe" is a fake Christ.

Appeal to the stone is a fallacy.
The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.

ONE God; three persons.

Christ is God in the flesh. No matter how many lies you tell.

Christ is God in the flesh. No matter how many lies you tell. Christ represents God as a Messenger, a conduit between the spiritual essence of God and physical humanity. The only access to God we have is a via a Divinely inspired Messenger such as Jesus who reflects the Attributes of God and has the Authority of God.

Having an opinion contrary to yours is not lying. I don't call you a liar simply because I do not agree with you.

 

[blueboy]

Catholicism doesn't just pretend to worship God the Father, like how so many paganisms wound up eventually, slowly but surely, pretending to worship their deities. Those paganisms died because of this phenomenon.

You just seem to not get this. We actually believe in God the Father, we believe in Jesus, we believe in the Holy Spirit; we also believe in going to Mass weekly, and attempting to walk the ethically straight and narrow, all because of both our reason, and our logically prior belief in God the Father and in His Son.

We don't just say we believe in His Real Presence in the sacraments, and in His Resurrection, and that He will come again to judge the living and the dead. We believe that, in a way that you don't believe in Shakespeare or Aristotle or Aquinas, you don't believe the authors of these classical works are God, but we believe the Author of the Bible is God the Holy Spirit, as we say, "He has spoken through the prophets."

I don't know how much clearer I can be. You don't understand, because you don't understand. And that's just your own arrogance getting in the way.

I think Catholicism certainly had its place and served its purpose. Few join religions to do anything but good works. I think the day of communal worship and a priestly class are over. We are each responsibly for our own spirituality and the endless rituals of Catholicism is in reality the antithesis of a living religion.

That said there will always be a need to have organised religion so that a critical mass of humans can be utilised to move humanity towards a moral, virtuous life of service to God and thus humanity.

I think the Catholic church has racked up too many sins to be taken seriously anymore.

 

[7djengo7]

you're a God-denying Sadducee - that's a new one. I'm not a member of a Jewish sect, nor do I deny the existence of spirits. I think we each have a unique spirit. As for dead bodies, I think it fair to say that the dead do not come back to life and why would they want to.

Being the Christ-hater you are - yes, this one has been used before rather carelessly I might add, considering how much I venerate the station of Christ and regard Christ as the Son of God and the Messenger of God. Differences of opinion do not make anybody, even me, a Christ hater.

If Christ had lived and never uttered a word you would never have known He lived. But by His Words do you know Christ, therefore the true power of Christ was His Words, His Teachings. What rose from death was His Teachings and they are still with us today, whereas His body has gone the way of all bodies. The spirit of Christ is indestructible, His body was just a body.

Instead of continuing to mindlessly churn out stuff like that, you should try to think of something to say that is cognitively meaningful. Translation, you must agree with me. I'm sorry, I don't. Christianity has been held captive by superstition and dogma for far too long. There is only one reality. As I mentioned, Christ could have appeared before Whomever He wished after His death, but His true power was His Words and Teachings which are still with us today.

Spare us, you vicious, Christ-hating troll. All you're doing is yet again repeating the same stupidities you've been posting in this thread all along: your rusted-on superstition and irrational dogmas that hold your poorly-thinking mind captive.

You've continually made it clear that you don't listen to truth and reason, and that you don't learn. You love your foolishness. And you have persistently stonewalled against the questions we've been asking you.

you're a God-denying Sadducee - that's a new one. I'm not a member of a Jewish sect

Oh, yeah...because I meant you are literally a member of a 1st century Jewish sect. You tempt me to think you're even dumber than you are.

Translation, you must agree with me.

In order to be right about the Trinity, and the fact that Jesus is God, you would, indeed, need to agree with me (and my bros., @Right Divider, @JudgeRightly, @way 2 go, etc.) about the Trinity, and the fact that Jesus is God. We're right about the Trinity, and the fact that Jesus is God; and we must be so since we believe what the Bible teaches; and the Bible teaches the doctrine of the Trinity, the Tri-unity of YHWH, and the fact that Jesus Christ is YHWH.

I'm sorry, I don't.

No! Really?

The fact that you don't agree with Trinitarians necessitates that you are wrong, because your opposition to Trinitarianism is opposition to God's Word, the Bible. (But you've already made clear your disdain against the Bible.)

So yeah, we're right because the Bible is right and we believe the Bible. And you're wrong, because the Bible is right and you oppose the Bible. Pretty simple.

Differences of opinion do not make anybody, even me, a Christ hater.

Your Christ-blaspheming hatred against Christ is what makes you the Christ-hater you are.