God sent Paul to preach the Gospel to every creature so that whoever would believe could be saved.
Jesus is God !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
Romans 10:13-15
beloved57
Well-known member
Do you believe Jesus is God ?
7djengo7
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So you don't believe Jesus is Man, since He is the Son of Man?
Greetings 7djengo7,
Jesus is both the Son of Man Psalm 8:4-6, Psalm 80:17 and the Son of God Luke 1:34-35.
Kind regards
Trevor
Nice to hear from you again after a long time. I occasionally drop in on one of these long running threads and yours is post number 4126 to see if you Trinitarians have resolved this issue, but I find that the same repetitious type posts are still current, similar to the one I answered and also to your post.
Jesus is both the Son of Man Psalm 8:4-6, Psalm 80:17 and the Son of God Luke 1:34-35.
Kind regards
Trevor
beloved57
Well-known member
You wrong, He is both according to the scripture evidence.
Right Divider
Body part
The Son of God is God.
Right Divider
Body part
Trinitarians resolved this issue a long time ago. You should believe God instead of whomever you are believing.
Yes, Jesus is both man and God. He is God in the flesh as the Bible clearly says.
7djengo7
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Resolved what issue?
How do you excuse yourself in the face of your glaring self-inconsistency?
Out of the one side of your mouth, you admit the truth that Jesus' being the Son of Man does not exclude Jesus from being Man, whereas out of the other side of your mouth, you assert the falsehood that Jesus' being the Son of God excludes Jesus from being God.
1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.“
Greetings again beloved57 and 7djengo7 and Greetings Right Divider and Bright Raven,
1 John 5:18–21 (KJV): 18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
My understanding of this subject has been stated in the thread "The Yahweh Name" and you may like to consider Posts #1 and 2 for starters.
Kind regards
Trevor
Much of the same. Jesus is the Son of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father and this excludes the concept that he is God. Good logic, or rather strange logic, as Jesus as the Son of Man is a descendant of the man Adam Psalm 8:4-6, Psalm 80:17.
The full quotation in its context helps to understand this passage.
1 John 5:18–21 (KJV): 18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
My understanding of this subject has been stated in the thread "The Yahweh Name" and you may like to consider Posts #1 and 2 for starters.
Kind regards
Trevor
7djengo7
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What you're telling us is that, in order for Jesus to be YHWH the Son, Jesus would have to be YHWH the Father. Which, of course, is a ludicrous thing for you to tell us. You're telling us that, "Look, Jesus is not YHWH the Father, and therefore Jesus cannot be YHWH the Son."
I've asked you to tell us why, according to you, Jesus' being the Son of Man does not preclude Jesus from being Man, since, according to you, Jesus' being the Son of God precludes Jesus from being God. When are you going to answer this question about your self-inconsistency?
Greetings again 7djengo7,
Kind regards
Trevor
I am not interested in trying to untangle your logic. Jesus is a man, the Son of God because he is the son of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father.
Kind regards
Trevor
This is the true God, and eternal life, is stating that the reality of God, His truth and eternal life are accessed by the perfect mirror, Jesus, who reflects all the qualities of God. Who in this age was the only mediator between humans and God.
This is not saying Jesus is literally God, because this would be nonsensical. Jesus made no claim that He was God.
That God the prefect Creator should enter the relative imperfection of physical reality is a strange imagining of God. Jesus was a path to the truth of God, to the true God, and to eternal life. He was not God Himself. Otherwise we have to imagine a God that needs to eat, defecate, becomes soiled and is eventually murdered by His own Created creatures.
I imagine that people don't know any better because suggesting Jesus is literally God, if thought through properly would have to be blasphemy against the perfect, eternal nature of God, who is transcendent, not subject to humans.
Son of God denotes the closeness of the relationship, the obedience a son has to the father, the son promoting the Will of the father and not his own, etc, it does not mean literal Sonship.
Greetings blueboy,
Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Luke 1:30–35 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Kind regards
Trevor
I appreciate your positive contribution and agree with much of what you have stated. Nevertheless I consider that the following teaches that the One God, God the Father was the father of Jesus in the conception / birth process by means of the power of the Holy Spirit, while Mary was his mother.
Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Luke 1:30–35 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Kind regards
Trevor
beloved57
Well-known member
trevor
Yeah thats Jesus as a Man, He is a descendant of Abraham and David according to the flesh Rom 1:3
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Thats why He is said to be off the offspring of David, but as God, He is Davids God and Creator, and He is said to be the root of David Rev 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
That means He is responsible for the being of David. And you know historically David was born before Jesus. Thats why the jews were confounded when Jesus asked them this Matt 22:42-46
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
So again, Jesus is both God and Man !
Yeah thats Jesus as a Man, He is a descendant of Abraham and David according to the flesh Rom 1:3
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Thats why He is said to be off the offspring of David, but as God, He is Davids God and Creator, and He is said to be the root of David Rev 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
That means He is responsible for the being of David. And you know historically David was born before Jesus. Thats why the jews were confounded when Jesus asked them this Matt 22:42-46
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
So again, Jesus is both God and Man !
Greetings again beloved57,
Kind regards
Trevor
I understand that this teaches that Jesus is the root of what David will be in his resurrection. Jesus is the source of life for all the faithful.
I understand that Jesus is David's Lord because Jesus is the Son of God. God the Father was the father of Jesus and thus he had a higher status and birth than David, who called Jesus his Lord in Psalm 110:1. He is Lord of all of the faithful also.
Kind regards
Trevor
Idolater
Popetard
You say this unironically about a Man Who raised the dead numerous times. And then raised up from the dead Himself. And that all history records that His Church always right from the get-go always believed He is God. This is indisputable. You think both things are possible that He can apparently at will raise the dead, and that He established an institution which wrongly thought He was God become flesh? You think both things are true?
You do not understand grammar.
Idolater
Popetard
Do you believe all of the following about Christ?
" Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end. "
That's all pretty well substantiated by the Bible.
Greetings Idolater,
Kind regards
Trevor
No. What you have quoted is part of the Nicene Creed. Also I do not accept the earlier part of the Nicene Creed.
Kind regards
Trevor