Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Jehovah

Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
KingdomRose said:
The "Alpha & Omega" that refers to Jehovah, the Father, means that He is eternal and has never died, and He is the only One who can command an ending to anything.
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Yes, you finally got something right. And since the Lord Jesus refers to Himself in that way we can know with certainity that the Lord Jesus is God. Here are his words:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

Notice that the Person here said that He will come quickly. And the Apostle John knew that those words were the words of the Lord Jesus, as witnessed by what he said here:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

From this we can understand that the Lord Jesus claimed to be the Alpha and Omega and even you admit that those words refer to Jehovah God:

KingdomRose said:
The "Alpha & Omega" that refers to Jehovah, the Father, means that He is eternal and has never died, and He is the only One who can command an ending to anything.
Click to expand...
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Let us look how Paul used the term "son of" here when he spoke to Elymas::

"O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?"​
(Acts 13:10).​

The Jews who heard this would understand that Paul was saying that Elymas' "nature" was that of the devil.

And when the Lord Jesus claimed to be the Son of God those who heard Him would understand Him to be saying that His very nature is that of God. And when He said that God is His Father and the Jews understood that He was claiming to be God:

"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (Jn.5:17-18).​

If this was just a misunderstanding then surely the Lord Jesus would have denied that He was making Himself equal to God.

In fact, in the same discourse He claimed to be able to raise the dead (v.21) and said that the Father had committed all judgment to Him (v.22). He also said this:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (v.23).​

How do you explain what the Lord Jesus said there? If the Lord Jesus is not God then those words are the worst sort of blasphemy possible. How do you defend what the Lord Jesus said there?



The words of the Apostle John here cannot be mistaken:

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:3-4).​



Let us look at the words of Thomas again:

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (Jn.20:28).​

Of course when Thomas used the words "My Lord" he was not making an exclamation under his breath. After all, Jesus had told them that was the proper way to address Him (Jn.13:13). So when He said "and my God" there is absolutely no reason why anyone would believe that those words were nothing more than an exclamation under his breath.



Then how do you explain the words here in "bold"?:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​
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I explained why the Jews were wrong in their assessment of Jesus as being equal to God, and, better than that, just why they brought up those charges. I explained how Jesus refuted them, explaining that he wasn't God but the Son of God. (John 10:31-36) They were accusing him of something HE DID NOT CLAIM TO BE.

Look at what they said after he had been impaled: "He has put his trust in God; let Him [God] now rescue him if He wants him, for he said, 'I am God's Son.'" (Matthew 27:43) Did they really think he claimed to be God? No, because they were apparently well-versed in what he claimed, because they said that "he said, 'I am GOD'S SON.'" That did not equate him in their minds with God. They were just outraged that Jesus claimed superiority to ABRAHAM, from whom they were descended.

Jesus DID deny that he was God or equal to Him. Yes, he did raise the dead, and notice: he said that THE FATHER committed all judgment to him; and it was THE FATHER who gave him the power to raise the dead. What did he say in his prayer before he raised Lazarus? No Jesus didn't utter blasphemous words when he said that he should be honoured like the Father. Jehovah's will was that Jesus be honoured as mankind's means of salvation.

IJohn 5:3,4 does not say what you said it says, but wherever you got the quotation from it does not say that Jesus is God. Again: DOES NOT SAY THAT JESUS IS GOD. "God" is the subject of the sentences there, in your quote. It is GOD, not Jesus who is featured in the last sentence that you quoted: "...even in His Son, Jesus Christ. This [God, the Father] is the true God, and eternal life."

I said that John 20:28 is ambiguous and can be taken more than one way, yet you continue to fall back on it. For shame. Where did Jesus tell Thomas how to address him? You say John 13:13? He merely said, "You call me teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am." Where does it say to address him as GOD?

I have answered your references to Isaiah 9:6. I'll bet other people here can tell you what I said. You apparently skipped right over it.

Once again I say to you: Your assertion was that Jesus and Jehovah are the same Person. In spite of that, you have come to argue that Jesus is EQUAL TO Jehovah. Which is it that you are saying? That Jesus IS Jehovah, OR that they are equal?
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
So you do not think that the Lord Jesus is the Almighty God even though both of them describe themselves as the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending?
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Jesus is absolutely NOT the Almighty God, and it is not he who described himself as the Alpha & Omega. That is ONLY Jehovah. Jesus said he was "The First and the Last" (John 1:17,18) but the Greek letters for Alpha and Omega are not used there, as they are in the references to the Alpha & the Omega. If you bothered to look it up in an Interlinear version, you could see the difference in the Greek letters.
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

New member
Right Divider said:
Because you think that there are TWO Alphas and Omegas. One that is God and one that is not.


No, I have a Bible and I know what it says.

1Tim 3:16 (AKJV/PCE)​
(3:16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. ​

There is ONLY ONE Alpha and Omega and that is God.
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That is right. One Alpha and Omega---Jehovah, the "only true God." (John 17:3) Jesus is not speaking except at Revelation 1:17,18 and "the First and the Last" are not the same Greek words as "Alpha and Omega." But you don't want to think that deeply do you and actually go look it up?


(Oh, and, BTW, your version of ITimothy 3:16 doesn't match with other versions which have used earlier manuscripts and have not twisted the verse to say that God was manifest in the flesh. Most modern versions say "He was" or "Who was." It wasn't meant to say "God was." That is a corruption of earlier texts.)


:think:
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
KingdomRose said:
This rendering of "First & Last" at Rev.1:17 apparently does not mean the same as "Alpha & Omega."
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My question was, "The first and the last what? What was Jesus the first of and the last of?"

Paul explained, "And so it is written, 'The first man Adam became a living being.' The last man Adam became a life-giving spirit." (1 Corinthians 15:45)

The first Adam was life-giving in terms of human life, but Jesus Christ is the first life-giving Adam is terms of eternal life. He is also the last Adam in terms of eternal life.

There will never be another Adam to impart eternal life.
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

New member
jamie said:
My question was, "The first and the last what? What was Jesus the first of and the last of?"

Paul explained, "And so it is written, 'The first man Adam became a living being.' The last man Adam became a life-giving spirit." (1 Corinthians 15:45)

The first Adam was life-giving in terms of human life, but Jesus Christ is the first life-giving Adam is terms of eternal life. He is also the last Adam in terms of eternal life.

There will never be another Adam to impart eternal life.
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I answered that in my post. You didn't read the whole thing.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
KingdomRose said:
Jesus is absolutely NOT the Almighty God, and it is not he who described himself as the Alpha & Omega.
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You just refuse to believe what is so plain in the Scriptures!

Here the Lord Jesus refers to Himself as the Alpha and Omega we can know with certainity that the Lord Jesus is God. Here are his words:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

Notice that the Person here said that He will come quickly. And the Apostle John knew that those words were the words of the Lord Jesus, as witnessed by what he said here:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

From this we can understand that the Lord Jesus claimed to be the Alpha and Omega and even you admit that those words refer to Jehovah God.

But you close your eyes to this truth and offer no explanation in regard to the Apostle John's words at Revelation 22:20.

Are those words not in your Bible?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
KingdomRose said:
IJohn 5:3,4 does not say what you said it says, but wherever you got the quotation from it does not say that Jesus is God. Again: DOES NOT SAY THAT JESUS IS GOD. "God" is the subject of the sentences there, in your quote. It is GOD, not Jesus who is featured in the last sentence that you quoted: "...even in His Son, Jesus Christ. This [God, the Father] is the true God, and eternal life."
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Let us look at this passage again and pay attention to the word "this":

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:20).​

The Greek word translated "this" is a demonstrative pronoun and "it refers to a subject immediately preceding, the one just named" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

When when we read "this is the true God" we can know that these words are referring to the Lord Jesus, the One just named

Of course I am sure that you will not be able to see this truth and I will be surprised if you even address it.
 
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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Lazy afternoon said:
So how do you worship?
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In order to worship the Lord we express our love and devotion to Him. We can do it on our knees in prayer to Him. We can do it by singing songs about His goodness and mercy. When we worship Him we praise Him, either in prayer or in witness before other people. We should do these things every single day!

So do you worship the Father in order to honor Him? Of course you do. And if you are going to honor the Son as you do the Father then you must also worship the Son:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

Do you worship the Son or will you begin to to worship Him?

If not, why not?
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Jerry Shugart said:
In order to worship the Lord we express our love and devotion to Him. We can do it on our knees in prayer to Him. We can do it by singing songs about His goodness and mercy. When we worship Him we praise Him, either in prayer or in witness before other people. We should do these things every single day!

So do you worship the Father in order to honor Him? Of course you do. And if you are going to honor the Son as you do the Father then you must also worship the Son:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

Do you worship the Son or will you begin to to worship Him?

If not, why not?
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You can do all of those things and still not be worshipping God.

LA
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Jerry Shugart said:
Let us look at this passage again and pay attention to the word "this":

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:20).​

The Greek word translated "this" is a demonstrative pronoun and "it refers to a subject immediately preceding, the one just named" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

When when we read "this is the true God" we can know that these words are referring to the Lord Jesus, the One just named
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This is also supported by Revelation 3:7.
 
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