Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
If your worship of the LORD does not honor Him then you need to change the way that you worship Him.
Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Jehovah
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
If your worship of the LORD does not honor Him then you need to change the way that you worship Him.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Since you continue to refuse to answer my simple question you want to change the subject in the hope that no one will notice that you will not answer it!
You and LA will not see eye to eye on the subject. why do you even bother? You will not accept it anyway.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Let us look how Paul used the term "son of" here when he spoke to Elymas::
"O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?"
(Acts 13:10).
The Jews who heard this would understand that Paul was saying that Elymas' "nature" was that of the devil.
And when the Lord Jesus claimed to be the Son of God those who heard Him would understand Him to be saying that His very nature is that of God. And when He said that God is His Father and the Jews understood that He was claiming to be God:
"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (Jn.5:17-18).
If this was just a misunderstanding then surely the Lord Jesus would have denied that He was making Himself equal to God.
In fact, in the same discourse He claimed to be able to raise the dead (v.21) and said that the Father had committed all judgment to Him (v.22). He also said this:
"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (v.23).
How do you explain what the Lord Jesus said there? If the Lord Jesus is not God then those words are the worst sort of blasphemy possible. How do you defend what the Lord Jesus said there?
The words of the Apostle John here cannot be mistaken:
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:3-4).
Let us look at the words of Thomas again:
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (Jn.20:28).
Of course when Thomas used the words "My Lord" he was not making an exclamation under his breath. After all, Jesus had told them that was the proper way to address Him (Jn.13:13). So when He said "and my God" there is absolutely no reason why anyone would believe that those words were nothing more than an exclamation under his breath.
Then how do you explain the words here in "bold"?:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).
I do not post before men.
Obviously you have no testimony of being filled with the Holy Spirit.
No Madists here have.
LA
believers are spirit filled at the time of there salvation.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I was quickened by the Spirit when I believed the gospel of my salvation. As the Lord said:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
Obviously you have never believed the "gospel of the grace of God" because you do not know what it means for someone to be saved on the principle of "grace."
Therefore, you have not yet received a quickening by the Spirit.
Sure! You just pretend that your post was not addressed to me!
So what did Jesus provide to believers after the cross which was not available before?
LA
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The gift bestowed by the Holy Spirit, the ability to speak in tongues.
Nay, much more than that--
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
LA
Acts1:36. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Peace.
Even Jesus said He was the "Son" of God, and also "God, the FATHER." There is a Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost! They are three separate but similar beings.
Michael
SonOfCaleb
Active member
I've noticed something mildly interesting about this forum KR. Its more like an echo chamber where posters come to re-enforce their 'opinion' rather than earnestly and honestly deliberating of scriptural FACTS or truths. Many here dont appear to be interested in truth much less have studied the Bible or pondered over its words. I'd love to be proven wrong with this assumption but thats what im observing when reading these threads.
With all due respect to the posters here this thread is mostly 5 pages of gibberish. Not only does the Trinity doctrine not stand up to secular scrutiny it also falls flat on its face in the Bible as its simply nowhere to be seen. The Jews never believed in it. Its not in ANY of the ancient Hebrew texts nor likewise the Greek scriptures. It wasnt practiced by ANY of the early Christians of 1AD, and yet a spurious doctrine introduced by Catholic Dogma around the 4th Century that has its roots firmly in ancient Babylonian mysticism and paganism is still a talking point among professed Christians in the 21St Century? A doctrine that is a PROVEN fraud and doesnt even stand up to the most casual biblical scrutiny?
You could write a thesis on here debunking the Trinity myth and it would likely be a thorough waste of your time as so many on this board are consumed by their own emotional commitment to ignorance and complete inability to READ and study Gods own words on the matter.
Gods OWN words through the inspired writer John @ John 6:38 "for I have come down from heaven to do, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me. 39 This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose none out of all those whom he has given me, but that I should resurrect them on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day."
It cant be stated any clearer than the verse above that Jesus and his father Jehovah are seperate individuals. From the context of the verse its abundantly clear they are as Jesus says he came to do the "Will of the him who sent me"..."For this is the will of my father that everyone who recognizes the Son", will be saved. This is just one set of verses disproving this myth. There are many many more all over the Bible. And even if you don't believe the Bible there's a WEALTH of secular material that throughly debunks the Trinity myth.
So by any standard this erroenous belief that Jesus is God and part of some mythical Triune godhead is less than junk. In fact its blasphemous and shows ZERO regard for Jehovahs name.
Anyone here claiming to be a Christian who believes this nonsense needs to have a serious discussion with themself and their 'belief' in the Bible which is GODS OWN WORDS if they really want to consider themself a follower of Christ. As the Trinity doctrine is an utter embarassment and stain on Christendom and does nothing more than bismirch the name of Jehovah.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Since you judge yourself able to distinguish between what is gibberish and what is not I invite you to prove that what I said in my OP on this thread is not correct. Others have tried but have all come up short.
Maybe you will be the first who can demonstrate that what I said is wrong!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes, Thomas really identified the Lord Jesus as God:
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (Jn.20:28).
If the Lord Jesus is not God then certainly He would have corrected Thomas. But He did no such thing. Instead, what He said to Thomas in reply confirms that what Thomas said was correct:
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed" (Jn.20:29).
Once Thomas saw the Lord Jesus in His resurrected body then any doubt that he might have had about the Lord Jesus being God vanished. And by the Lord's response we can know for certain that what Thomas said was right, that the Lord Jesus is God.
In order to have a proper understanding of what the Lord Jesus said there we must look at this passage:
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).
Here we see that the Lord Jesus was made in the likeness of men. In fact, He was made like us in every way (Heb.2:17). And every "man" has a God:
"The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all" (Ps.103:19).
The LORD is in total control over the universe which He created, so therefore He rules over it all and that includes all "men." The Lord Jesus subjected Himself to everything in regard to being a "man," including things like hunger, exhaustion, sorrow and all the other emotions experienced by man.
And since the Lord Jesus was made like a man in all things that means that in His role as "man" He has a God. That fact cannot be disputed!
When we consider Philippians 2:5-7 again we can see that before the Lord Jesus took on the form of man that He was in the form of God.
The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
So since the Lord Jesus was in the form of God then the verse is speaking about how He will appear to the inhabitants of heaven:
"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads" (Rev.22:3-4).
The Lord Jesus couldn't appear that way to those inhabitants unless He is God. And from this verse which describes the ONE sitting on the throne we can know that the Lord Jesus is God:
"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).
Since Jehovah God is the only one who can be identified as the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, then we can know that the following words of the Lord Jesus identify Him as God:
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).
We can know for certain that there are the words of the Lord Jesus because later we can see that the Apostle John knew that those words were spoken by the Lord Jesus. He said:
"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).
What more evidence do you need before you will recognize the truth that the Lord Jesus is Jehovah God?
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Is "Jehovah" how you choose to pronounce YHVH?
About the 13th century the term "Jehovah" appeared when Christian scholars took the consonants of "Yahweh" and pronounced it with the vowels of "Adonai." This resulted in the sound "Yahowah," which has a Latinized spelling of "Jehovah." The first recorded use of this spelling was made by a Spanish Dominican monk, Raymundus Martini, in 1270.
Interestingly, this fact is admitted in much Jehovah's Witness literature, such as their Aid to Bible Understanding (p. 885). This is surprising because Jehovah's Witnesses loathe the Catholic Church and have done everything in their power to strip their church of traces of Catholicism. Despite this, their group's very name contains a Catholic "invention," the name "Jehovah."
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/is-gods-name-yahweh-or-jehovah
Interestingly, this fact is admitted in much Jehovah's Witness literature, such as their Aid to Bible Understanding (p. 885). This is surprising because Jehovah's Witnesses loathe the Catholic Church and have done everything in their power to strip their church of traces of Catholicism. Despite this, their group's very name contains a Catholic "invention," the name "Jehovah."
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/is-gods-name-yahweh-or-jehovah
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Addressing some points.......
Addressing some points.......
Adressed here
- specifically John 20:28. A Unitarian view is just as good as a Trinitarian one, although some would qualify that statement differently - and still other Christological views are available :thumb:
I'd be careful of doctrinal grid-lock :think:
Your other passage quotes can be explained from a Unitarian perspective as well you know. There are ample 'apologetics' from both sides
Addressing some points.......
Adressed here
- specifically John 20:28. A Unitarian view is just as good as a Trinitarian one, although some would qualify that statement differently - and still other Christological views are available :thumb:I'd be careful of doctrinal grid-lock :think:
Your other passage quotes can be explained from a Unitarian perspective as well you know. There are ample 'apologetics' from both sides