beloved57
Well-known member
Most in mans religion have been deceived to believe Israel in regards to Salvation refers to the ethnic jews, but it doesnt.
Jesus Christ as Saviour !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
Most in mans religion have been deceived to believe Israel in regards to Salvation refers to the ethnic jews, but it doesnt.
Right Divider
Body part
The generic use of the word "salvation" is part of your problem.
Nanja
Well-known member
Absolutely Brother ! Christ as a Saviour to God's Elect Israel, or Church, or Sheep Chosen in Him Eph. 1:3-4; Gives / bestows [not offers] them Repentance which is Belief of the Truth Eph. 1:13, or Faith in it: A change of mind in turning from dead works of the flesh to Faith which is given by God in New Birth Gal. 5:22 through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead 1 Pet. 1:3, specifically for acknowledging the Truth, and so is Repentance.
Now the faith or repentance which comes from the natural man as false religion teaches, cannot please God Rom. 8:8 !
beloved57
Well-known member
Also those whom Christ is a Saviour to, not only are they given repentance/acknowledgment of the truth, but they are given forgiveness of sins. Lets read Acts 5:31 once again please :
[FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Folks those Christ died for and is a Saviour unto have been given forgiveness of sins.
Paul wrote to the elect in Eph 1:7
7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
again Col 1:14
in whom we have redemption through his blood,even the forgiveness of sins:
Now all dont have forgiveness of sins, hence we cant conclude they have have Christ as a Prince and a Saviour.
Remember Christ indicated that some shall die in their sins, how can they therefore have forgiveness of sins Jn 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Folks those Christ died for and is a Saviour unto have been given forgiveness of sins.
Paul wrote to the elect in Eph 1:7
7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
again Col 1:14
in whom we have redemption through his blood,even the forgiveness of sins:
Now all dont have forgiveness of sins, hence we cant conclude they have have Christ as a Prince and a Saviour.
Remember Christ indicated that some shall die in their sins, how can they therefore have forgiveness of sins Jn 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
[/FONT]
Nanja
Well-known member
beloved57
So true, the condemned goats Mat. 25:41 are the portion of humanity which were predestinated to never have forgiveness / remission of sins: for Christ was not their Prince and Saviour !
It's only the elect of God 1 Pet. 1:2; the Sheep of God or Christ, or His Church, that were Chosen In Union with Him before the foundation of the world to have remission / forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7; the Gift of Eternal Life for those He gave His Life in behalf of John 10:11, 15; Eph. 5:25; which occurred before they who received it even had a being !
But for all the rest [goats], the wages of sin is death Rom. 6:23a.
They were ordained by God to be condemned for their sins !
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
So true, the condemned goats Mat. 25:41 are the portion of humanity which were predestinated to never have forgiveness / remission of sins: for Christ was not their Prince and Saviour !
It's only the elect of God 1 Pet. 1:2; the Sheep of God or Christ, or His Church, that were Chosen In Union with Him before the foundation of the world to have remission / forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7; the Gift of Eternal Life for those He gave His Life in behalf of John 10:11, 15; Eph. 5:25; which occurred before they who received it even had a being !
But for all the rest [goats], the wages of sin is death Rom. 6:23a.
They were ordained by God to be condemned for their sins !
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen Sister its so refreshing to read your testimony of truth this friday morning.
Dear Nanja: A few questions for you>>>>
1. Why are the "condemned goats" clean animals in the Old Covenant?
2. Why are the "condemned goats" in the same context as 10 clean virgins (5 wise, 5 unwise) but virgins?
3. Why are the "condemned goats" in the same context as the Lord's poor investors?
WHY?
Kolasis aionion -Matthew 25:46-
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”
Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).
Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),
“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”
Scarlett’s New Testament written in 1792 has “aeonian punishment” in place to “everlasting punishment.”
“And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life.”
The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:
“And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life.”
Young’s Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:
“And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.”
Professor Young also compiled Young’s Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.
The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:
“And these last will go away ‘into aeonian punishment,’ but the righteous ‘into aeonian life.’”
The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:
"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.
The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:
“And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages.”
Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as “life of the ages,” “fire of the ages;” and in Rev. 14:6, “The good news of the ages.”
It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth’s version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.
The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:
“And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”
The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word “forever” which is the same word for “eternal” which says: "Literally, for the age.”
Clementson’s The New Testament (1938) shows,
“And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life.”
Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,
“And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life.”
It should be noted that the “cutting-off” refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit.
The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word “timoria.”
The Concordant Version (1930):
“And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”
The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:
“And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life.”
Joseph B. Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,
“and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.”
The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976
has “age-abiding correction” instead of “everlasting punishment.”
Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has
"And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.
Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King’s translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.”
The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”
"God is the Source, Guide & Goal of ta panta (the all)"
"From Him ta panta, through Him ta panta, in Him ta panta"
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”
Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s, J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).
Concerning the duration of kolasis (literally - corrective punishment), Matt. 25:46 says (KJV),
“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”
Scarlett’s New Testament written in 1792 has “aeonian punishment” in place to “everlasting punishment.”
“And these will go away into aeonian punishment: but the righteous into aeonian life.”
The New Covenant by Dr. J.W. Hanson written in 1884 renders Matt. 25:46:
“And these shall go away into aeonian chastisement, and the just into aeonian life.”
Young’s Literal Translation first published in 1898 and reprinted many times since uses the following words:
“And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.”
Professor Young also compiled Young’s Concordance, where one can check the translation of each Hebrew or Greek word as translated in the KJV.
The Twentieth Century New Testament first printed in the year 1900 has:
“And these last will go away ‘into aeonian punishment,’ but the righteous ‘into aeonian life.’”
The Holy Bible in Modern English by Ferrar Fenton first published in 1903 gives the rendering:
"And these He will dismiss into a long correction, but the well-doers to an enduring life.
The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. Weymouth, says:
“And these shall go away into punishment of the ages, but the righteous into life of the ages.”
Dr. Weymouth most frequently adopts such terms as “life of the ages,” “fire of the ages;” and in Rev. 14:6, “The good news of the ages.”
It is a matter to regret that the editors of the most recent edition of Dr. Weymouth’s version have reverted to the KJV renderings for the passages containing the Greek word aion, eon, or age.
The Western New Testament published in 1926 renders Matt. 25:46 as follows:
“And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”
The translation, however, has a footnote on Matthew 21:19 on the word “forever” which is the same word for “eternal” which says: "Literally, for the age.”
Clementson’s The New Testament (1938) shows,
“And these shall go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life.”
Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott (1942 edition) translates the verse,
“And these shall go forth to the aionian cutting-off; but the righteous to aionian life.”
It should be noted that the “cutting-off” refers to pruning a fruit tree to make it bear more fruit.
The idea behind the word is not destructive but productive! Had Jesus wanted to emphasize a destructive end, He would have used the word “timoria.”
The Concordant Version (1930):
“And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”
The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed printed in 1958 says:
“And these shall go away into agelasting cutting-off and the just into agelasting life.”
Joseph B. Rotherham, in his Emphasized Bible (1959), translates this verse,
“and these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life.”
The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible copyrighted in 1976
has “age-abiding correction” instead of “everlasting punishment.”
Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010) has
"And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age), yet the fair and just folks who are in right relationship and are in accord with the Way pointed out [go off] into eonian life (life which has it source and character in the Age; life pertaining to the Age)”.
Even some King James Study Bibles will show the reader in the margins or appendixes that the King’s translators were incorrect in their rendering of "eternal punishment.”
The great Companion Bible by Dr. Bullinger is an example of that.
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”
"God is the Source, Guide & Goal of ta panta (the all)"
"From Him ta panta, through Him ta panta, in Him ta panta"
Nanja
Well-known member
beloved57
Well-known member
Jesus says some shall not see life, the wrath of God abides on them Jn 3:36
beloved57
Well-known member
Now when its stated that Christ gives as a Saviour forgiveness of sins to His People Israel, Acts 5:31 synonymous with forgiveness of sins is non imputation of sins. Lets read Rom 4 when Paul writes 7-8
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
So those whom Christ is A Saviour unto, whom He gives forgiveness, the Lord doesnt and will not impute sin unto them. See also 2 Cor 5:19 for non imputation.
So if Christ died for ones sins, He gives them forgiveness/non imputation of sin.
So consequently they which shall die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24 cannot possibly have Christ as their Saviour, that would be a contradiction to Him being a Prince and a Saviour.
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
So those whom Christ is A Saviour unto, whom He gives forgiveness, the Lord doesnt and will not impute sin unto them. See also 2 Cor 5:19 for non imputation.
So if Christ died for ones sins, He gives them forgiveness/non imputation of sin.
So consequently they which shall die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24 cannot possibly have Christ as their Saviour, that would be a contradiction to Him being a Prince and a Saviour.
beloved57: you are in dire need of a revolutionary experience in the Word of Father. Jesus Christ IS the Saviour/Soter of ALL mankind. He is not a potential Saviour: He is Saviour, of the malista and all/pas mankind.
"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.”
"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.”
beloved57
Well-known member
Why are you spamming up this thread ? You arent paying attention to none of my discussion points.
beloved57: I assure you I am paying very close attention to all your posts! I also want to assure you the Father's word is not spam!
"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.”
Your word for today= pas= the radical all
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen! God's People Israel Ps. 22:23, Acts 13:23; 1 Pet. 1:2 were Chosen Eph. 1:4 In Union with Christ their Head before the foundation of the World to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:7; Mat. 1:21, meaning not even one sin was ever imputed to them 2 Cor. 5:19, but laid to the charge of their Surety Christ Jesus Heb. 7:22; Is. 53:6 in their behalf, and His Righteousness imputed to them: The Lamb slain before the foundation Rev. 13:8b.
This is the same World [kosmos] exclusively that was reconciled to God even while being His enemies and unbelievers Rom. 5:10: A World [kosmos] that was made the Righteousness of God In Him.
2 Cor. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
So as a consequence, we can assuredly know that those who shall die in their sins John 8:24 weren't any of that World [kosmos] that Christ was a Prince and a Saviour to Acts 5:31, and that God desired to be Saved.
Job 23:13-14
13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.
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Dear Nanja: The entire mass born in Adam1 are lost sinners (including you & beloved & all the elect). That mass= the polus.
"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned— To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.... Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many/ polus were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many/ polus will be made righteous."
The polus "made sinners'= the polus "made righteous">>>>Every last one!
"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned— To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.... Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many/ polus were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many/ polus will be made righteous."
The polus "made sinners'= the polus "made righteous">>>>Every last one!
oatmeal
Well-known member
Not only did Jesus save His people from his sins but paid the price for all the sins of the world
I John 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
So that whosoever will believe can come to God through Christ and be saved
Romans 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
beloved57
Well-known member
False teaching. Many will die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24
24 [FONT="]I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.[/FONT]
oatmeal
Sounds like you believe Christ died for peoples sins that shall end up dying in their sins. Thats a sad saviour
oatmeal
Well-known member
So you reject
I John 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
That is your problem, not mine