Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

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Dartman

Active member
Of course Jesus plays different roles.
No, Jesus HAS different roles, he is NOT playing!

He is Immanuel, the Wonderful Counselor, the Prince of Peace, etc. Each name signifies a role that Jesus plays.[/quote]No, Jesus HAS different roles, like King, Lord, High Priest, the Christ ..... he is NOT playing!
M said:
The only Creed that is inspired by God is this one:
1 Corinthians 15:3-8
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
1) This is not a creed. A creed is something OTHER THAN Scripture, that expresses a set of beliefs.
2) I totally agree with this text .... and I strongly suspect you do not.
Paul demands that we believe Jesus ACTUALLY DIED. ALL of Jesus died. There was NOTHING alive. Jesus was "asleep" in death, and his "soul" was in HELL.
JESUS was buried .... not just a "meat shell".
JESUS was resurrected, stood up, and walked out of the tomb, and was seen by hundreds.
3) This is not the ONLY required belief! Here are just a couple other required beliefs;

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


M said:
As a preacher, you will be judged more severely for your false teaching.
Surprisingly, this is actually true! Any false teaching of mine, or any other teacher, will be judged more severely. That's why I reject your nonscriptural theories.
M said:
You are a minister of the devil though you imagine you serve God.
You have destroyed any credibility with your previous posts. I'm merely saddened by your continued blindness.
 

Dartman

Active member
The Second Person of the Trinity, the Divine Logos, was (and is) God from all eternity. In the Incarnation, he entered space and time as Jesus of Nazareth. While preserving his Divinity whole and intact, he humbled himself by taking on our humanity. This meant creating a human body and also a human soul for himself. Jesus wasn’t simply a mask the Logos wore, or an avatar, or anything of the sort. Rather, the Man Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, and vice versa. The Second Person of the Trinity united his human soul perfectly to his Divine Self.
This is pure fiction, with a couple of actual Scriptural words thrown in for "flavor".

tt said:
In doing so, he bridged the gulf created by sin between God and man. This is one of the reasons that we refer to Jesus by the titles “Son of Man” and “Son of God” without any tension: he’s the perfect God-Man (see Matthew 26:63-64, in which the two titles are used interchangably).
Both titles are true, they are not used interchangeably. "Son of man" does not MEAN "son of God" .... but Jesus was both. "God=man" is just more fiction.
Jesus states precisely and clearly, his Father is "the ONLY true God".
ONLY.
ONLY.
 

MennoSota

New member
No, Jesus HAS different roles, he is NOT playing!

He is Immanuel, the Wonderful Counselor, the Prince of Peace, etc. Each name signifies a role that Jesus plays.

No, Jesus HAS different roles, like King, Lord, High Priest, the Christ ..... he is NOT playing!
1) This is not a creed. A creed is something OTHER THAN Scripture, that expresses a set of beliefs.
2) I totally agree with this text .... and I strongly suspect you do not.
Paul demands that we believe Jesus ACTUALLY DIED. ALL of Jesus died. There was NOTHING alive. Jesus was "asleep" in death, and his "soul" was in HELL.
JESUS was buried .... not just a "meat shell".
JESUS was resurrected, stood up, and walked out of the tomb, and was seen by hundreds.
3) This is not the ONLY required belief! Here are just a couple other required beliefs;

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


Surprisingly, this is actually true! Any false teaching of mine, or any other teacher, will be judged more severely. That's why I reject your nonscriptural theories.
You have destroyed any credibility with your previous posts. I'm merely saddened by your continued blindness.

Such silliness.
Jesus is Immanuel, God with us. Jesus is Wonderful Counselor. Jesus is Prince of Peace. Jesus is King of Kings. Jesus is the I AM.
Yet, you deny him.
Enjoy following HW Armstrong and the false teaching his god, Satan, gave him for those who are destined to join Satan in the pit.
 
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Dartman

Active member
Jesus is Immanuel, God with us. Jesus is Wonderful Counselor. Jesus is Prince of Peace. Jesus is King of Kings. Jesus is the I AM.
Yet, you deny him.
You've included some words from the Scriptures .... but twisted them to fit your theory.

M said:
Enjoy following HW Armstrong and the false teaching his god, Satan, gave him for those who are destined to join Satan in the pit.
LOL ..... strike 3. You're out.
 

MennoSota

New member
You've included some words from the Scriptures .... but twisted them to fit your theory.


LOL ..... strike 3. You're out.
Dart, it is interesting to watch you look for ways to deny God.
Until God chooses to make you alive, you will remain dead in your trespasses and sins.
I hope that one day God breaks your rebellious heart.
 

Dartman

Active member
Dart, it is interesting to watch you look for ways to deny God.
Until God chooses to make you alive, you will remain dead in your trespasses and sins.
I hope that one day God breaks your rebellious heart.
Merely restating your opinion would only be effective with someone who values your opinion.
You are pretty much stuck to just give opinion, since your theology is never preached to ANY audience in the Scripture.
Your theology is never clearly, simply and directly stated in Scripture.

By stark contrast, Biblical Unitarian theology is BUILT upon clear, simple direct statements in Scripture.... AND on the explanations of God, and His servant Jesus the Christ, found THROUGHOUT the NT.

Here is a small sample;

Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.
8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.

Acts 4:24-30 And they, when they heard it, lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, O Lord, thou that didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that in them is:
25 who by the holy spirit, (by) the mouth of our father David thy servant, didst say, Why did the Gentiles rage, And the peoples imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against His Anointed:
27 for of a truth in this city against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together,
28 to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy council foreordained to come to pass.
29 And now, Lord, look upon their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness,
30 while Thy stretchest forth Thy hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Thy holy servant Jesus.

Acts 17:24-31
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

1 Cor 15:24-28 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till He hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For He hath put all things under his feet. But when He saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


John 14:28 ... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


Deut 18:17-19 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.


John 12:49-50 For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, He hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

John 17:6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them me; and they have kept Thy word.

John 17:17-18 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth. 18 As Thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

John 17:21-22 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which Thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.'"

1 Cor 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Tim 2:3-5 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
 

7djengo7

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God MADE Jesus "Lord"
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath madethat same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

See, you MADE Acts 2:36 to mean something that it clearly does NOT mean. Peter, when he says that God hath MADE Jesus Lord, and that God hath MADE Jesus Christ, is NOT saying that God hath CAUSED Jesus to go from a state of not being Lord to a state of being Lord, and he is NOT saying that God hath CAUSED Jesus to go from a state of not being Christ to a state of being Christ.

According to 1 John 5:10, "he that believeth not God hath made him a liar". Who, in his/her right mind, would claim that John is saying that, by not believing God, a person is CAUSING God to BECOME a liar?
 

MennoSota

New member
Merely restating your opinion would only be effective with someone who values your opinion.
You are pretty much stuck to just give opinion, since your theology is never preached to ANY audience in the Scripture.
Your theology is never clearly, simply and directly stated in Scripture.

By stark contrast, Biblical Unitarian theology is BUILT upon clear, simple direct statements in Scripture.... AND on the explanations of God, and His servant Jesus the Christ, found THROUGHOUT the NT.

Here is a small sample;

Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.
8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.

Acts 4:24-30 And they, when they heard it, lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, O Lord, thou that didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that in them is:
25 who by the holy spirit, (by) the mouth of our father David thy servant, didst say, Why did the Gentiles rage, And the peoples imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against His Anointed:
27 for of a truth in this city against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together,
28 to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy council foreordained to come to pass.
29 And now, Lord, look upon their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness,
30 while Thy stretchest forth Thy hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Thy holy servant Jesus.

Acts 17:24-31
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

1 Cor 15:24-28 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till He hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For He hath put all things under his feet. But when He saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


John 14:28 ... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


Deut 18:17-19 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.


John 12:49-50 For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, He hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

John 17:6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them me; and they have kept Thy word.

John 17:17-18 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth. 18 As Thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

John 17:21-22 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which Thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.'"

1 Cor 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Tim 2:3-5 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Satan quoted scripture like you do, dart. You have learned well from your father.
 

7djengo7

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Merely restating your opinion would only be effective with someone who values your opinion.
You are pretty much stuck to just give opinion, since your theology is never preached to ANY audience in the Scripture.

YOUR opinion is that ONLY God the Father is the only true God. We can look through your posts and find you, over and over, merely restating your opinion that ONLY God the Father is the only true God.

You and I both know very well that you have NOTHING to say against the truth that to say "God the Father is the only true God" is NOT the same as to say "ONLY God the Father is the only true God".

The Bible tells us that God the Father is the only true God.
The Bible does NOT tell us that ONLY God the Father is the only true God.
YOU, however, tell us that ONLY God the Father is the only true God.
You are pretty much stuck to just keep merely restating your opinion that ONLY God the Father is the only true God, since the Bible nowhere teaches that ONLY God the Father is the only true God.
 

7djengo7

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Jesus states precisely and clearly, his Father is "the ONLY true God".
ONLY.
ONLY.

Two only's, eh?

See, Dartman, that, right there, is the insurmountable problem that Christ-haters like you create for yourselves by imposing your cherished unitarianism upon John 17:3: YOU ADD IN AN EXTRA "ONLY"!

Jesus states that His Father is the ONLY true God. Jesus does NOT state that ONLY His Father is the ONLY true God.

Jesus said to His Father: "Thee the only true God"
Jesus did NOT say to His Father: "Thee [ONLY are] the only true God"

Your eisegesis is plain as day.
 

7djengo7

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JudgeRightly wrote:

And yet, you won't try to show me how I'm wrong.

And, you reacted by saying:

1) It doesn't work like that.

Which, of course, is an admission, from you, that you can't show that JR is wrong. (And, JR's NOT wrong!) But then, you said:

2) You have been shown how you are wrong repeatedly.

If (as you say) "it doesn't work like that", then, obviously it IS NOT the case that you have (one or more times) shown that JR is wrong.
 

7djengo7

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I asked:

In what Bible verse(s) is it stated that Jesus Christ is NOT YHWH? Please cite.

You wrote:

To answer your question

Well, so far, you have not answered the question I asked. And, since you are embarrassed by the question, you wrote:

Your question is to some extent invalid

Nah. You just don't like the question, because it embarrasses you to answer it, and it embarrasses you to not answer it.

Your reaction, your non-answer to the question I asked is what is INVALID.

Even though the Bible NOWHERE states that Jesus is NOT YHWH, nevertheless, YOU CLAIM that Jesus is NOT YHWH. Since you and I both know that the Bible NOWHERE states that Jesus is NOT YHWH, why do YOU CLAIM that Jesus is NOT YHWH? You got your doctrine that Jesus is NOT YHWH from somewhere OTHER THAN the Bible. So, from where did you get your doctrine that Jesus is NOT YHWH?
 

7djengo7

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Jesus didn't exist yet
Says no verse ever.

Jesus, the Logos of John 1:1, is co-eternal with His Father. There was never a time when the Logos was NOT with His Father. Since Jesus, the Logos, made all things that were made, Jesus, the Logos, Himself, was never made. Thus, Jesus' Father did not make Jesus. And, since the Bible is internally self-consistent (unlike hardened Christ-haters such as Dartman, who venomously despise logic, and consider it virtuous to shoot themselves in the foot at every turn), NOWHERE does the Bible turn around and contradict itself by saying that "Jesus didn't exist yet".
 

7djengo7

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You are just as wrong as they were .... which is why Jesus CORRECTED THEM, (and you)
John 10:36 say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

I've seen you parrot this text countless times, Christ-hater. But, never once have you (or any of your fellow Christ-haters) tried to explain exactly why you imagine that what Jesus said in John 10:34-38 is a denial, on Jesus' part, that Jesus is YHWH. Hmmm. I wonder why that is....

Here's John 10:33-38 KJV:

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Not one bit of this passage looks even remotely as though Jesus is saying, to the Jews, "No, you're mistaken! I am NOT claiming to be YHWH!" Rather, you simply impose your filthy Christ-hating unitarianism upon the verse.

And, remember, you lying Christ-hater, that in John 5:18, John, himself, states that Jesus was making Himself equal with God. When you deny that Jesus is God, you are denying that Jesus is equal with God, and you are making John, and Jesus, liars like unto yourself.
 

7djengo7

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The trinity contradicts Christ's clear statement that his Father is "the ONLY true God".

No, you Christ-hater. The Trinity does NOT contradict Christ's clear statement that His Father is the ONLY true God. Rather, the Trinity contradicts YOUR anti-Christ, anti-Bible, unitarian presupposition that ONLY God the Father is the ONLY true God. The Trinity contradicts YOUR anti-Christ, anti-Bible, unitarian presupposition that Jesus Christ is NOT the ONLY true God.
 

7djengo7

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John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify Thy Son, that Thy Son also may glorify Thee: 2 As Thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as Thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know Thee: the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent.



And, to whom is Jesus praying?

Jesus, God the Son, is praying to His Father, God the Father. What (if anything) is your point?

Who is Thee, Thy, Thou .... in Christ's prayer?

God the Father is the referent of 'Thee'. What (if anything) is your point?

Jesus is saying that God the Father is the ONLY true God.
Jesus is NOT saying that ONLY God the Father is the ONLY true God.
YOU, by your Christ-hating, unitarian presupposition, are saying that ONLY God the Father is the ONLY true God. You are teaching something that is not taught in Scripture.

To everybody reading this (and my many other replies to Dartman's ravings), I would remind you that (so far as I can tell) Dartman has, for some time, been using the "Ignore" feature against me. As you can see, he has, throughout his many posts, really been trying hard, by parrot-like repetition, to get John 17:3 KJV to help him out. And yet, we've robbed him of his illusion as to the verse. Just remember, and proclaim, these two facts, and Dartman and his ilk must flee from you (all mumbly-grumbly-like):

  • Jesus said "Thee the only true God"
  • Jesus did NOT say "Thee [ONLY ARE] the only true God"
 

7djengo7

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Now, we ALSO need to examine Scripture to see if Scripture EVER concludes
1) God was literally on the earth as Jesus,
2) or, as Jesus said repeatedly, if God was in heaven, and Jesus was on earth.
3) Or if, as Jesus said, to the people looking at Jesus, "no man has seen God".
Now, we just need to examine Scripture to see if Scripture EVER concludes God was literally on the earth as Jesus, or, as Jesus said repeatedly, if God was in heaven, and Jesus was on earth. Or if, as Jesus said, the people looking at Jesus, "have never seen God".

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Or, as John said;


1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.


If Jesus was LITERALLY God .... then THOUSANDS had seen God!!!

Your theory utterly fails on SO many levels!

Since you, ironically, BY THE FACT OF YOUR PRESUPPOSITION OF UNITARIANISM, just so happen to AGREE with Trinitarians that, in those statements you just quoted from John ("No man hath seen God at any time"), the referent of the word 'God' is God the Father, it is YOUR THEORY that utterly fails. For, you AGREE with us that John is saying that no man hath seen God the Father at any time. That being the case, John is NOT saying: "No man hath seen God the Son at any time". So, you have just lost whatever illusory edge you imagined you had in those verses. Neither John 1:18, nor 1 John 4:12, teaches that Jesus is NOT YHWH.

Jesus IS LITERALLY God; THOUSANDS had seen God!!! Ain't it cool! :)
 

7djengo7

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Your interpretation is consistently wrong.
It is obvious there isn't a single text that states your theory.

It is obvious there ARE texts, that are worded in such a way that you THINK they support your case..... but the verses that clearly, simply and directly state that Jehovah/YHVH God, Christ's Father, is "the ONLY true God", and "there is but ONE GOD, the Father", and "there is ONE God, and ONE MEDIATOR, ..... BETWEEN God and man, THE MAN Christ Jesus" ,,,, make it obvious you are wrong.

In 1 Corinthians 8:6:

  • Paul wrote "[there is but] one God [,] the Father" (there was, of course, no comma, in the Greek).
  • Paul did NOT write "ONLY God the Father is YHWH".

So, what (if anything) is your point in bringing up 1 Corinthians 8:6? Paul definitely doesn't contradict the Trinity! Only Christ-haters such as yourself contradict the Trinity.

Yet another egregious failure by you; no bull's eye for DARTman (though truckloads of bullsomething from Dartman.)
 

7djengo7

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way 2 go wrote:

I"m talking about these verses

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad."
Joh 8:57 So the Jews said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?"
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."


from what Jesus said in the above verses john 8:56,58
why do you think the Jews picked up rocks ?

And this is how Dartman pretended to answer it:

They didn't understand Jesus.
They didn't understand Jesus.
They didn't understand Jesus.
They didn't understand Jesus.
They didn't understand Jesus.
They still didn't understand Jesus.

They were furious because he told them they were "of your father the devil", they were rejecting that he was sent from God...... there are several elements to their anger ... but the bottom line is ..

They didn't understand Jesus.

That's quite a pathetic attempt at answering way 2 go's question. See, NOW Dartman has created for himself another question that he will also not be able to answer:

Why did the people (His disciples, Nicodemus, and many, many others) who DID NOT want to stone Jesus NOT want to stone Jesus?

At any rate, it is the things that Jesus said, and which those Jews understood, that made the Jews seek the more to kill Jesus. Jesus made Himself equal with God, Jesus made Himself God, Jesus made Himself the Son of God. The Jews hated Jesus for THOSE things.
 
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