glorydaz
Well-known member
:rotfl:
Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God
- Thread starter Dartman
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glorydaz
Well-known member
You don't notice anything when you say that, and then read this verse from Isaiah? :chew:
Isaiah 45:22-24
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God
7djengo7
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7djengo7
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Why don't you just try to explain what (if anything) you mean by "divinity", when you say that Jesus "stripped Himself of His divinity"?
And, what about God the Father? Would you not, also, say that God the Father has whatever it is you call "divinity"? And, if God the Father has whatever it is you call "divinity", would you say that God the Father could (if He so willed) "strip Himself of His divinity", like you say that Jesus "stripped Himself of His divinity"? If Jesus can, at will, "strip Himself" of whatever it is you call "His divinity", why can't God the Father (if He so wills) "strip Himself" of whatever it is you call "His divinity"? Can Jesus do what Jesus wills, and God the Father CAN'T do what God the Father wills?
Why don't you try to explain exactly what (if anything) you imagine it is for a person to go from having whatever it is you call "divinity" to no longer having it?
And, if Jesus could "strip Himself" of whatever it is you call "His divinity", would you deny that He could later, in a reversal, "unstrip Himself" of the same?
Have fun.
I see the absolute connection between recognizing, and bowing to God's beloved servant, as the worship of that servant's God.
Jesus himself told us, his Father is "the ONLY true God", AND that the most important Law .... EVER ... is to worship Jehovah/YHVH God as the ONLY true God.
We do NOT bow to Jesus AS GOD, but as God's beloved servant, beloved son, God's Christ.
Yes, Jesus is shaped/formed like his God, in fact Jesus is the express image of his God
Heb 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Unfortunately for you, that's not what the Bible says. You just make it up to serve your agenda.
Hebrews 1:1-4
Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature,
and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.
After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature,
and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.
After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
Jesus is God. It's that simple and that true.
LOL .... way to go Translation hunting!!
This mess you have quoted takes MANY liberties with the Greek.
NT:5481 charakter (khar-ak-tare'); from the same as NT:5482; a graver (the tool or the person), i.e. (by implication) engraving (["character"], the figure stamped, i.e. an exact copy or [figuratively] representation): KJV - express image.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Then, simply put, you are not saved.
His humanity is what makes Him a servant.
Before that, He was the Creator of all things.
7djengo7
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You missed the verses which glorydaz quoted:
Who is the Lord of glory? God the Father, or Jesus Christ?
Also, in the Bible, whom does Jesus address, or refer to, by the phrase "my Lord"?
Acts 2:36 doesn't help you at all, not the least bit:
That is NOT AT ALL saying that God the Father CAUSED Jesus to go from a state of not being Lord, and not being Christ, to a state of being Lord, and of being Christ! Not at all! Not anymore than when John, in John 5:18, states that Jesus was MAKING Himself equal with God, John is saying that Jesus was CAUSING Himself to go from a state of not being equal to God to a state of being equal with God. Not anymore than, when, in John 19:7, some Jews said that Jesus "MADE himself the Son of God", they were saying that Jesus CAUSED Himself to go from a state of not being the Son of God to a state of being the Son of God.
7djengo7
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Right you are! Jesus did NOT tell us that ONLY His Father is "the ONLY true God"! Not a single passage of Scripture tells us that ONLY God the Father is the only true God, so why do YOU believe that ONLY God the Father is the only true God, since the Bible does not tell you so?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Right. One would think what is so plainly written would convince the most stubborn of men, but alas....they stumble over the very ROCK who created them.
Phil. 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phil. 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Phil. 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
glorydaz
Well-known member
:first:
way 2 go
Well-known member
:nono:
Following Jesus means understanding that Jesus was SENT by God, AND that Jesus IS God.
if Jesus was just SENT by God & not God then he was wrong to accept worship
Jesus accepted worship because Jesus is God
Mat 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.
Mat 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"
following & serving Jesus means following & serving Jesus because Jesus is God
if Jesus was just SENT by God & not God then he was wrong for saying "follow me" "serve me"
that is not honoring God
Jesus says "follow me" "serve me" because Jesus is God .
Joh 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
Joh 21:19 (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, "Follow me."
Joh 12:26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.
God is Jehovah of the sabbath , it is God's day, which means if Jesus is supreme in authority of the sabbath , which he is ,Jesus has to be God
Exo 20:10 and the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God;
God the Father gave God the son words to speak which can only be spoken in such a manner if Jesus is God
Jesus can say " my commandments " & it's not a lie because Jesus is God
Jesus here is saying " his commandment"
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me."
Jesus here is saying " my commandments "
Joh 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
both verses can only be true if Jesus is God
Best translation. ESV.
Do you subscribe to the Russellite translation?
You are very confused.
Jehovah/YHVH God, Christ's God, Christ's Father .... is the creator of the universe;
Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.
8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.
Acts 4:24-30 And they, when they heard it, lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, O Lord, thou that didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that in them is:
25 who by the holy spirit, (by) the mouth of our father David thy servant, didst say, Why did the Gentiles rage, And the peoples imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against His Anointed:
27 for of a truth in this city against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together,
28 to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy council foreordained to come to pass.
29 And now, Lord, look upon their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness,
30 while Thy stretchest forth Thy hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Thy holy servant Jesus.
Acts 17:24-31
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
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