Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

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Dartman

Active member
I just share the scriptures.
I agree with the Scriptures, I do NOT agree with your interpretation of those Scriptures.
M said:
You twist and turn to excuse them away and deny Jesus.
Your statement is incorrect in two ways;
1) I point out the error in your interpretation.
2) I have never denied Jesus.

You, on the other hand, completely ignore the Scriptures that plainly, simply, clearly and directly state that Jehovah/YHVH God ALONE is "the ONLY true God", and is the creator. And, that Jesus is Jehovah's son, Jehovah's servant, Jehovah's prophet.
Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.
8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.

Acts 4:24-30 And they, when they heard it, lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, O Lord, thou that didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that in them is:
25 who by the holy spirit, (by) the mouth of our father David thy servant, didst say, Why did the Gentiles rage, And the peoples imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against His Anointed:
27 for of a truth in this city against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together,
28 to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy council foreordained to come to pass.
29 And now, Lord, look upon their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness,
30 while Thy stretchest forth Thy hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Thy holy servant Jesus.

Acts 17:24-31
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

1 Cor 15:24-28 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till He hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For He hath put all things under his feet. But when He saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


John 14:28 ... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


Deut 18:17-19 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.


John 12:49-50 For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, He hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

John 17:6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them me; and they have kept Thy word.

John 17:17-18 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth. 18 As Thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

John 17:21-22 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which Thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.'"

1 Cor 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Tim 2:3-5 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
 

MennoSota

New member
I agree with the Scriptures, I do NOT agree with your interpretation of those Scriptures.
Your statement is incorrect in two ways;
1) I point out the error in your interpretation.
2) I have never denied Jesus.

You, on the other hand, completely ignore the Scriptures that plainly, simply, clearly and directly state that Jehovah/YHVH God ALONE is "the ONLY true God", and is the creator. And, that Jesus is Jehovah's son, Jehovah's servant, Jehovah's prophet.
Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.
8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.

Acts 4:24-30 And they, when they heard it, lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, O Lord, thou that didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that in them is:
25 who by the holy spirit, (by) the mouth of our father David thy servant, didst say, Why did the Gentiles rage, And the peoples imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against His Anointed:
27 for of a truth in this city against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together,
28 to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy council foreordained to come to pass.
29 And now, Lord, look upon their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness,
30 while Thy stretchest forth Thy hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Thy holy servant Jesus.

Acts 17:24-31
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

1 Cor 15:24-28 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till He hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For He hath put all things under his feet. But when He saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


John 14:28 ... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


Deut 18:17-19 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.


John 12:49-50 For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, He hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that His commandment is life eternal: the things therefore which I speak, even as the Father hath said unto me, so I speak.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

John 17:6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them me; and they have kept Thy word.

John 17:17-18 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth. 18 As Thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

John 17:21-22 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which Thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.'"

1 Cor 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Tim 2:3-5 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Immanuel
 

genuineoriginal

New member
It's saying that there are three distinct persons that make up a single unity (as in one single counsel - elohim).
It is why men as judges can also be referred to as elohim --- ie. a single unity counsel of men, not a single individual person.
I agree with what you say here, because it is the truth, unlike the Trinity doctrine which considers God to be three persons in a single being instead of three persons in a united council.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
My spirit is me

God's spirit is God

Psa_139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?

Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
If David had God's Holy Spirit, wouldn't that make him God according to your logic?
 

Dartman

Active member
So you agree with my reading, that the subject of John 12:36-41 KJV, is Jesus?
No. The subject of verses 36-41 is the OT statement that Jehovah's prophets have always experienced rejection, AND by extension, this foretold of Israel's rejection of Jehovah's LAST prophet to Israel.
I said:
So do you therefore, since Jesus is the subject of John 12:36-41 KJV, believe that in John 12:41 KJV, John is saying that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus?
No. John is including Isaiah's remark about Jehovah.

I said:
Or are you saying that somewhere before John 12:41 KJV, that the subject of the passage changed? And if so, where do you see that change occurring, because I myself cannot find this change.
Yes, verse 38 the subject changes from directly recounting the historical events in that moment of Christ's ministry, to directly discussing Israel's rejection of Jehovah, and His prophets in Isa 53, and Isa 6. It was Jehovah's "glory" Isaiah saw ...... and we KNOW Jesus is NOT Jehovah..... according to Jehovah, and Jesus both.
 

Dartman

Active member
God with us. Speaking directly about Jesus.
Yes, Jesus proves that God is NOT against us, God is with us.
Gen 39:2-3 And Jehovah was with Joseph, and he was a prosperous man; and he was in the house of his master the Egyptian. 3 And his master saw that Jehovah was with him, and that Jehovah made all that he did to prosper in his hand.


1 Sam 3:19 And Samuel grew, and Jehovah was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.


1 Sam 18:12 And Saul was afraid of David, because Jehovah was with him, and was departed from Saul.


1 Sam 18:14 And David behaved himself wisely in all his ways; and Jehovah was with him.


2 Sam 5:10 And David waxed greater and greater; for Jehovah, the God of hosts, was with him.

2 Kings 18:1,6,7 Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign....
6 For he clave to Jehovah; he departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which Jehovah commanded Moses.
7 And Jehovah was with him; whithersoever he went forth he prospered: and he rebelled against the king of Assyria, and served him not.

1 Chron 9:20 And Phinehas the son of Eleazar was ruler over them in time past, (and) Jehovah was with him.
2 Chron 1:1 And Solomon the son of David was strengthened in his kingdom, and Jehovah his God was with him, and magnified him exceedingly.

2 Chron 15:8-9 And when Asa heard these words, and the prophecy of Oded the prophet, he took courage, and put away the abominations out of all the land of Judah and Benjamin, and out of the cities which he had taken from the hill-country of Ephraim; and he renewed the altar of Jehovah, that was before the porch of Jehovah.
9 And he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, and them that sojourned with them out of Ephraim and Manasseh, and out of Simeon: for they fell to him out of Israel in abundance, when they saw that Jehovah his God was with him.


Luke 1:66-77 And all that heard them laid them up in their heart, saying, What then shall this child be? For the hand of the Lord was with him.


Acts 10:38 even Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
 

Dartman

Active member
They were right about Jesus claiming to be God. That's why they accused Him of blasphemy. They didn't want this lowly servant to be claiming to be God.
Jesus disagrees with the Jews, and with you ....
John 10:36 ... I said, I am the Son of God?
 

Dartman

Active member
People express the concept in different ways.
I don't think any of the ways we express it are entirely adequate.
That's not the problem.
The problem is the trinity isn't true.
The trinity contradicts Christ's clear statement that his Father is "the ONLY true God".
The trinity contradicts Jehovah/YHVH God's own statements that HE is the ONLY creator of the earth, and all the creatures, and that HE is the ONLY God.
The trinity contradicts the REST of the Scriptures.
 

Right Divider

Body part
That's not the problem.
The problem is the trinity isn't true.
The trinity contradicts Christ's clear statement that his Father is "the ONLY true God".
The trinity contradicts Jehovah/YHVH God's own statements that HE is the ONLY creator of the earth, and all the creatures, and that HE is the ONLY God.
The trinity contradicts the REST of the Scriptures.
You are lying, but that's typical of Christ deniers.

The Jesus did NOT say that "his Father is 'the ONLY true God'".. You made that up.
 

JudgeRightly

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Yes, Jesus proves that God is NOT against us, God is with us.

Here's a couple problems with your assertion:

The only person in the Bible called Immanuel is Jesus, which emphasizes the importance of giving someone that name, and the name is mentioned, you guessed it, THREE times in scripture.

"Immanuel" means "God with us". It does not mean, "God is for us," nor does it mean "God is with us." "God with us"

Immanuel is a combination of two Hebrew words, "immanu" and "el".

Literally translated, it means, "with us God."

"El" of course, means God.

"Immanu" in scripture is hardly ever used as having the connotation of being "for" something, (only 3 times is it translated as "for", and only a few other times as 'for us,' 'for you (against)') like you propose, but being "next to" or "along side" something or "among" (a group).

58bcdf1b5fb804d00141c8e93c9a8bab.jpg



Strong's h5973

- Lexical: עִם
- Transliteration: im
- Part of Speech: Preposition
- Phonetic Spelling: eem
- Definition: against.
- Origin: From amam; adverb or preposition, with (i.e. In conjunction with), in varied applications; specifically, equally with; often with prepositional prefix (and then usually unrepresented in English).
- Usage: accompanying, against, and, as (X long as), before, beside, by (reason of), for all, from (among, between), in, like, more than, of, (un-)to, with(-al).
- Translated as (count): with (531), with him (58), with you (54), and with (37), from (34), against (32), to (26), with them (19), and with him (17), with me (17), by (16), with us (16), in (15), of (13), with her (13), among (8), And with them (7), to you (6), and (5), from him (5), from you (5), to me (5), before (4), also with (3), as (3), at (3), beside (3), for (3), near (3), toward (3), - (2), among you (2), and with you (2), by you (2), for me against (2), from us (2), himself with (2), in her (2), in you (2), of you (2), on (2), to us (2), with it (2), accompanying (1), against them (1), against you (1), along (1), among them (1), among us (1), and beside (1), and both toward (1), and from (1), and like (1), and of (1), and to (1), and who with (1), and yet for all (1), as long (1), away with (1), before him (1), beside you (1), but with (1), by reason of (1), do them (1), done of you (1), for them with (1), for us (1), for you (1), for you against (1), from among (1), from between (1), from me (1), have a you (1), have you with (1), he with (1), here fast by (1), himself with him (1), I with (1), in the behalf of (1), it of you (1), minded (1), more than (1), near him (1), near you (1), nor of (1), on your terms (1), than with (1), thereof with him (1), to him (1), to them (1), together with (1), up along (1), utterly with (1), who (1), with him a few (1), yourself with him (1).

 

MennoSota

New member
Yes, Jesus proves that God is NOT against us, God is with us.
Gen 39:2-3 And Jehovah was with Joseph, and he was a prosperous man; and he was in the house of his master the Egyptian. 3 And his master saw that Jehovah was with him, and that Jehovah made all that he did to prosper in his hand.


1 Sam 3:19 And Samuel grew, and Jehovah was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.


1 Sam 18:12 And Saul was afraid of David, because Jehovah was with him, and was departed from Saul.


1 Sam 18:14 And David behaved himself wisely in all his ways; and Jehovah was with him.


2 Sam 5:10 And David waxed greater and greater; for Jehovah, the God of hosts, was with him.

2 Kings 18:1,6,7 Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign....
6 For he clave to Jehovah; he departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which Jehovah commanded Moses.
7 And Jehovah was with him; whithersoever he went forth he prospered: and he rebelled against the king of Assyria, and served him not.

1 Chron 9:20 And Phinehas the son of Eleazar was ruler over them in time past, (and) Jehovah was with him.
2 Chron 1:1 And Solomon the son of David was strengthened in his kingdom, and Jehovah his God was with him, and magnified him exceedingly.

2 Chron 15:8-9 And when Asa heard these words, and the prophecy of Oded the prophet, he took courage, and put away the abominations out of all the land of Judah and Benjamin, and out of the cities which he had taken from the hill-country of Ephraim; and he renewed the altar of Jehovah, that was before the porch of Jehovah.
9 And he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, and them that sojourned with them out of Ephraim and Manasseh, and out of Simeon: for they fell to him out of Israel in abundance, when they saw that Jehovah his God was with him.


Luke 1:66-77 And all that heard them laid them up in their heart, saying, What then shall this child be? For the hand of the Lord was with him.


Acts 10:38 even Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
You love to pretzel.
 

Dartman

Active member
Same thing and the Jews knew it....just as all Christians know it.
If your statement were true, (and it's not), then Jesus wasted his time correcting them.
What Jesus SHOULD have said, IF your theory were true, is; "DUH! .. Of COURSE I am God!!"

He did not. Your theory is fail.
 
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