It's NOT the Attainment it's the Atonement

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Catholics and others holiness religions see little to no value in the death of Christ. Many believe that the crucifixon of Christ happened to inspire them to be better Christians. They do not believe that Jesus really did atone for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Catholics believe that Jesus died on the cross so that the Holy Spirit would become available to them and through the indwelling Spirit they would be able to become like Christ. The whole of Catholicism is to become like Christ. Doesn't seem to be working very well. I think that the more you try to become like Christ the more you will sin. See Romans 7:7-12. This is the problem. The law does not conquer sin, it causes sin.

The atonement of Christ frees us from the law. If Jesus atoned for the sins of the world, then I don't need to worry about it, nor do I need to try to overcome it. Jesus overcame it for me. This means that I can rest in what he has accomplished for me, Hebrews 4:10.

The Christian is called to live his life before God as a sinner, a saved sinner. This is why Paul wrote, "For the good that I would do, I don't do it, instead I do the evil" Romans 7:19. Paul struggled with sin just like we do. He even refered to himself as..."The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Was Paul really the chief of sinners? No, but he just wanted us to know that he was indwelt with sin, Romans 7:17.

The problem is within. The help is without. trying to overcome your sin problem through the works of the law will result in more sin. Ask any Catholic. Remember all of those fallen TV Pentecostal preachers? None of them had or believed the Gospel. They were all trying to overcome their sin problems by the works of the law, which is really the works of the flesh.

Here is the answer to the sin problem, "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh" Romans 8:3. If sin has been abolished or condemned, why should we be concerned about it? God is not concerned about it. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed, Colossians 2:15. We who believe are now perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

Instead of trying to be like Christ, which is impossible. Try working on being "In Christ". To be in Christ means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins. To be "In Christ" means that you have renounced your righteousness and your religion, which is worthless and you are totally and completely trusting in Christ alone for your salvation.
 

Cruciform

New member
Catholics and others holiness religions see little to no value in the death of Christ...Catholics believe that Jesus died on the cross so that the Holy Spirit would become available to them and through the indwelling Spirit they would be able to become like Christ. The whole of Catholicism is to become like Christ.
Pate is either unaccountably ignorant, or simply and straightforwardly lying regarding Catholic belief and practice. Concerning the actual Christian teaching on justification/salvation, see this and this.

End of thread.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

Right Divider

Body part
Pate is either unaccountably ignorant, or simply and straightforwardly lying regarding Catholic belief and practice. Concerning the actual Christian teaching on justification/salvation, see this and this.

End of thread.

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
Those links that you always post are full of nothing but false doctrine and man-made babbling.

Just one example:
Gal. 6:7-9 – whatever a man sows, he will reap. Paul warns the Galatians not to grow weary in doing good works, for in due season they will reap (the rewards of eternal life).
Eternal life itself is NOT a reward (or rewards), it is a GIFT from God.
Rom 6:23 KJV For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.​
RCCism is a pile of filthy rags.
 

Cruciform

New member
Those links that you always post are full of nothing but false doctrine and man-made babbling.
Once again, the entirely non-authoritative opinions (traditions of men) about the Bible's supposed meaning that you have derived from your preferred recently-invented, man-made Protestant sect are noted. :yawn:
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Pate is either unaccountably ignorant, or simply and straightforwardly lying regarding Catholic belief and practice. Concerning the actual Christian teaching on justification/salvation, see this and this.

End of thread.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

What makes you think that the Catholic church is the authority?

There is no mention of a Catholic church in Rome in the New Testament.

John wrote to the Seven churches that were in Asia, Revelation 1:11. There is no mention of a church in Rome.
 

Cruciform

New member
What makes you think that the Catholic Church is the authority?
Because the Catholic Church is the only professed Christian group that is able to trace the lineage of its leadership all the way back to the apostles and Jesus Christ. The tens-of-thousands of recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sects certainly can make no such claim, much less demonstrate its factuality.

There is no mention of a Catholic Church in Rome in the New Testament. John wrote to the Seven churches that were in Asia, Revelation 1:11. There is no mention of a Church in Rome.
I have already answered both of these claims on other threads. Why, then, are you here pretending that you have not already been answered, and that you don't already know those answers?


Back to Post #2 above.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

Bradley D

Well-known member
I believe Christians are to strive to be Christ-like.

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal. 3:27).

I believe Christians are to strive to live the words in "red."

I am to strive to reach for perfection. Though I will not ever reach it here on earth. I am not to ever quit striving for God's Will.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
I believe Christians are to strive to be Christ-like.

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal. 3:27).

I believe Christians are to strive to live the words in "red."

I am to strive to reach for perfection. Though I will not ever reach it here on earth. I am not to ever quit striving for God's Will.


There is a tension in the writings of Paul.

He is trying to be like Christ, but at the same time he sees himself as "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.

This tension is the result of being indwelt with the Holy Spirit, Romans 7:15-25.

"For the flesh lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.

Keep your mind on Christ and his Gospel and walk in the Spirit.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Because the Catholic Church is the only professed Christian group that is able to trace the lineage of its leadership all the way back to the apostles and Jesus Christ. The tens-of-thousands of recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sects certainly can make no such claim, much less demonstrate its factuality.


I have already answered both of these claims on other threads. Why, then, are you here pretending that you have not already been answered, and that you don't already know those answers?


Back to Post #2 above.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+


I can't find any connection between the Catholic church and the apostles, unless you mean the persecutions the Catholic church inflicted upon them.
 

Bradley D

Well-known member
There is a tension in the writings of Paul.

He is trying to be like Christ, but at the same time he sees himself as "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.

This tension is the result of being indwelt with the Holy Spirit, Romans 7:15-25.

"For the flesh lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.

Keep your mind on Christ and his Gospel and walk in the Spirit.

I believe it is a lifelong battle. An inner struggle between the flesh and spirit.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
I believe it is a lifelong battle. An inner struggle between the flesh and spirit.

Some would like you to believe that you can get the victory over sin.

These people usually belong to holiness religion.

My mother was a holiness pentecostal. She was not allowed to drink anything out of a bottle because it was a sin. She eventually gave that up, thank God.

Many holiness are fanatics. They are not living in the real world.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Where in the Bible does it say that everything that a Christian believes must be explicitly stated in the Bible?

The Bible is an overwhelming witness for Christ and HIS Gospel.

To deny the Gospel and justification by Christ apart from the works of the law is to commit spiritual suicide.
 

Cruciform

New member
The Bible is an overwhelming witness for Christ and HIS Gospel. To deny the Gospel and justification by Christ apart from the works of the law is to commit spiritual suicide.
Again:
"Where in the Bible does it say that everything that a Christian believes must be explicitly stated in the Bible?"
 

OCTOBER23

New member
Lu 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written,

That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

-- It looks like Crucifoam does not know his bible.

-- That is because he is NOT A CHRISTIAN

but a Member of the Pagan IDOL worshipping Catholic church
 

beloved57

Well-known member
There is a tension in the writings of Paul.

He is trying to be like Christ, but at the same time he sees himself as "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.

This tension is the result of being indwelt with the Holy Spirit, Romans 7:15-25.

"For the flesh lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.

Keep your mind on Christ and his Gospel and walk in the Spirit.

You reject the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ and teach that a person is saved by works, by what they do !
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
You reject the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ and teach that a person is saved by works, by what they do !

There is no grace in a God that condemns billions to hell for no reason.

You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith and stand under God's wrath.
 
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