ECT Israel is not the BOC

tetelestai

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So would it make sense that Israel was living as they were because the Kingdom of God was at hand?

No, I'd say that early church in Jerusalem was living like that because they had been told that Jerusalem was going to be destroyed in their lifetimes, and that everyone in Judaea was going to have to flee to the hills.

In addition to being told they were going to be persecuted, hated, thrown in jail, betrayed by their families, etc.
 

Right Divider

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No, I'd say that early church in Jerusalem was living like that because they had been told that Jerusalem was going to be destroyed in their lifetimes, and that everyone in Judaea was going to have to flee to the hills.

In addition to being told they were going to be persecuted, hated, thrown in jail, betrayed by their families, etc.
You're so close..... the GREAT tribulation did NOT occur in 70 AD or any time since.

But that was what they were being prepared for.

Great tribulation -> Kingdom. Still in the future per scripture.
 

tetelestai

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You're so close..... the GREAT tribulation did NOT occur in 70 AD or any time since.

Wrong.

It occurred from 66AD - 70AD (3.5 years)

But that was what they were being prepared for.

Um.....that's because Jesus made it clear that it would happen to them, not some people 2,000 years into the future.

Great tribulation -> Kingdom. Still in the future per scripture.

Wrong Again !!!!
 

JudgeRightly

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No, I'd say that early church in Jerusalem was living like that because they had been told that Jerusalem was going to be destroyed in their lifetimes, and that everyone in Judaea was going to have to flee to the hills.

In addition to being told they were going to be persecuted, hated, thrown in jail, betrayed by their families, etc.
Was Jesus correct when He said this:

“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues.You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles.But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak;for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.“Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. - Matthew 10:16-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew10:16-23&version=NKJV

Did the Son of Man come before any of them made it through all of the cities of Israel?

Wrong.

It occurred from 66AD - 70AD (3.5 years)



Um.....that's because Jesus made it clear that it would happen to them, not some people 2,000 years into the future.



Wrong Again !!!!

Was Peter correct in what he said?

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans?And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words.For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy.I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the L ord.And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’ - Acts 2:1-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts2:1-21&version=NKJV

If not, why did He very clearly state that what was prophesied in Joel was happening in Acts 2, in 30 AD?
 

tetelestai

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Was Jesus correct when He said this:

Yes, Jesus was correct.
Did the Son of Man come before any of them made it through all of the cities of Israel?

Yes, the Son of Man came (in judgment in 70AD) before they made it through all of the cities of Israel.
Was Peter correct in what he said?

Yes, Peter was correct.

If not, why did He very clearly state that what was prophesied in Joel was happening in Acts 2, in 30 AD?

What was prophesied in Joel was happening in Acts 2.

Joel 2:28-32 spans 40 years (the last days). It begins with God pouring out His spirit (that happened on Pentecost 30AD), and finishes with the Day of the Lord (that happened in 70AD)
 

tetelestai

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The GREAT tribulation will be FAR more devastating than that little parade in Jerusalem in the first century.

Over 1 million Jews were killed from 66AD - 70AD, and the city was laid to waste.

Since that event, no city on planet earth has faced such devastation.

The death tolls of Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined, don't even amount to half of how many people died in Jerusalem in 70AD.

Pick any war, or natural disaster since 70AD, and you won't find a city that faced a greater death toll than that of Jerusalem in 70AD.
 

lifeisgood

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tetelestai = WRONG.

The GREAT tribulation will be FAR more devastating than that little parade in Jerusalem in the first century.

Some just don't realize that it is a specific tribulation as Revelation has it, it is 'the tribulation, the great', as the Greek has it. The BOC has always been in great tribulation since its inception, but the tribulation, the great that Jesus is talking about is so horrendous that if those days, of the tribulation, the great, were not shortened no one would survive (Matthew 24:22). For Jesus to say that if the days were not shortened no one would survive is has to be so horrendous to defy understanding.
 

tetelestai

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For Jesus to say that if the days were not shortened no one would survive is has to be so horrendous to defy understanding.

Read Josephus, he was an eyewitness to it. It was horrendous. The rivers and sea were red from the blood of the dead bodies floating in them. Mothers ate their children. Dead bodies were stacked everywhere. The Romans hung the Jews on crosses, lit them on fire, and used them for street lights at night. There was mass starvation and sickness.

Some Jews did survive. Had it been longer, there wouldn't have been one survivor.

It was a tribulation only for those in Judaea. Only those in Judaea were told to flee to the hills. That tells us it wasn't a worldwide tribulation, nor was it a tribulation that would last for hundreds of years.

It was a great tribulation for the Christ rejecting Jews of the first century. It lasted 3.5 years. No one outside of Judaea experienced the great tribulation.
 

Danoh

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You are correct and right. When I post my post I noticed you logged out and wondered if I had offended you.
I do apologize to you because your right you should be able to speak without me butting in. I wondered what you were going to say since you ask the question in post #364 and was impatient. I do apologize,,,

If you were addressing me there; not to worry: I often log in and out here and there - depends on what's on my plate on any given day, and how much time I see I might have for reading and or posting.

Besides, we each have the truth of Roman 5's "tribulation worketh patience" as an operative principle, general guideline, or rule of thumb (of the many found throughout Romans) that we can each turn to for our "peace" if we are so inclined to do so.

Thus, whether you offended, or not, perceived or not, the Lord can be the issue, or core focus, in all things.

Just a matter of each our decision to let Him be the issue, or our core focus, in any moment in life.

And that, is not a bad opportunity to seize on as our core focus, any time of the day...or night.

This here from Romans 5 - it's a pretty good deal as a core focus. :)

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Rom. 5:8
Prov. 27:17
Acts 17:11,12.
 

lifeisgood

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Read Josephus, he was an eyewitness to it.

Sorry to burst your bubble, tetelestai. Josephus was an eyewitness to one great tribulation in Judea, however, Josephus was not an eyewitness to 'the tribulation, the great’ that Jesus warned about. 'The tribulation, the great,' Jesus talked about is so horrendous that if those days are not shortened no one would survive. I believe Jesus.

Christians are going through great tribulation, all over the world, however, it is not 'the tribulation, the great' that Jesus warned about.

There are parts in the Middle East where not one Christian is left. That is great tribulation, however, it is not 'the tribulation, the great' Jesus warned about.
 

tetelestai

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Sorry to burst your bubble, tetelestai. Josephus was an eyewitness to one great tribulation in Judea, however, Josephus was not an eyewitness to 'the tribulation, the great’ that Jesus warned about. 'The tribulation, the great,' Jesus talked about is so horrendous that if those days are not shortened no one would survive. I believe Jesus.

I believe Jesus too.

Why did Jesus only tell those in Judaea to flee to the hills, and those outside Judaea, not to go to Judaea?

(Luke 21:21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
 

lifeisgood

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I believe Jesus too.

Why did Jesus only tell those in Judaea to flee to the hills, and those outside Judaea, not to go to Judaea?

(Luke 21:21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

Jesus was saying that no part of Judea would be safe from the Roman armies and that the people from surrounding countries should not come into Judea or they would also be destroyed. That was not 'the tribulation, the great' that Jesus said if the days were not shortened not one person would survive.
 

tetelestai

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That was not 'the tribulation, the great' that Jesus said if the days were not shortened not one person would survive.

No, that was the great tribulation.

(Matt 24:16,21) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:.... For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 

lifeisgood

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No, that was the great tribulation.

(Matt 24:16,21) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:.... For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It was great tribulation as no one had ever seen before in Judea because of the coming of the Roman armies and Judea will never see that great tribulation again for it will never again see the Roman armies.

It is not 'the tribulation, the great' Jesus warned about.
 

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Over 1 million Jews were killed from 66AD - 70AD, and the city was laid to waste.
Hitler murdered ~6 million Jews.

Since that event, no city on planet earth has faced such devastation.

The death tolls of Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined, don't even amount to half of how many people died in Jerusalem in 70AD.

Pick any war, or natural disaster since 70AD, and you won't find a city that faced a greater death toll than that of Jerusalem in 70AD.
You fixate on Jerusalem when the GREAT tribulation will be WORLD-WIDE.
 

tetelestai

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Hitler murdered ~6 million Jews.

Not in one city.

You fixate on Jerusalem when the GREAT tribulation will be WORLD-WIDE.

Matthew 24 and Luke 21 prove you wrong.

Jesus told only those in Judaea to flee to the mountains, an everyone else not to go to Judaea.

That's because the great tribulation only took place in Judaea.
 

lifeisgood

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Not in one city.

Matthew 24 and Luke 21 prove you wrong.

Jesus told only those in Judaea to flee to the mountains, an everyone else not to go to Judaea.

That's because the great tribulation only took place in Judaea.

It was great tribulation as no one had ever seen before in Judea because of the coming of the Roman armies and Judea will never see that great tribulation again for it will never again see the Roman armies.

It is not 'the tribulation, the great' Jesus warned about.
 
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