Citation for "Most serious problems with vaccines really begin to show up a year or more after vaccination."Most serious problems with vaccines really begin to show up a year or more after vaccination.
Citation for "Most serious problems with vaccines really begin to show up a year or more after vaccination."Most serious problems with vaccines really begin to show up a year or more after vaccination.
Do you ever actually respond to what was said to you or do you only ever find ways to repeat your position as though nothing has been said to refute it.If there’s any health risk with the vaccine, @marke is being wise to exercise caution and loving to warn others. Why is that a problem? There is some risk, according to numerous doctors, according to the nature of the new technology, and according to reports of adverse reactions and death from the vaccines. The risk due to COVID is not much more than the risk of the vaccines, at this time. Wouldn’t you applaud marke for taking precautions for himself and warning others about COVID itself?
At least you're honest enough to say outloud that your decision isn't because of anything related to science. I don't blame you for not trusting the government. They've clearly earned everyone's distrust but there is still the fact that hundreds of millions of doses have been administered with statistically insignificant numbers of serious problems. Then there's also the results. The pandemic is effectively over here in the U.S. where the vaccine is easily available and has been widely distributed while other parts of the world are still on lock down, precisely because they do not have the access to the vaccine that we've had here.I don't think you missed anything. If you trust the vaccine then great. I don't, not because I have the hard numbers (although Way2go does have some great information), but because I've been lied to SO much by Fauci and the media that I can't trust the numbers they endorse. And the fear mongering, sheesh! Why, as liars, are they so insane about trying to have me get the jab? Don't they know it only hardens my heart against their command that I get it? Even so, I know I'm not at risk so it doesn't matter much in my case anyway. And when I look for specific numbers, they aren't available. For instance, they reported the number of delta variant cases were up - by percentage. Percentage ratio of what numbers? can't find them. What are the charts showing vaccination heavy areas and those that hardly vaccinated at all and their cases/deaths (and how are the cases determined?)? can't find those charts or numbers to make a chart with.
So, yeah, I'm just going to wait.
I always respond to what was said, when it makes any sense to do so. But if there’s nothing substantive…(I was debating whether to respond to yours this time, but I’ll lower my standards this once.)Do you ever actually respond to what was said to you or do you only ever find ways to repeat your position as though nothing has been said to refute it.
Not scared of the vaccine.You have no reason to be scared of this vaccine.
I am not looking for scientific basis for fear, but the same argument, if it could be called such, should be applied to the need for the vaccine as much or more than the vaccine itself.There is no scientific basis for your fear whatsoever, as has been demonstrated over and over against without substantive response from your throughout this entire thread.
Thank goodness for that! (But why do I not believe you? Maybe it’s like how the WHO and CDC and MSM have been repeating the mantra about the virus, while hiding important information. They have destroyed their integrity, if they had any left.I'm done repeating it all.
Not scared of the vaccine, or cars. I am a little frightened of the drivers in both cases, however. And what are the drivers for the vaccine that require doctors to be silenced in their opposition? That require doctors not to treat patients according to their own wisdom and knowledge? That require a puppet president to be set up to further the “cause”? It’s bigger than just the vaccine, Clete.If the sort of "caution" you speak of was reasonable, you'd scream in terror if anyone ever suggested that you get into a car.
No problem—this takes more time than I have to give, sometimes.P.S. Derf, I just realized that you wrote that post and not marke. Sorry! I should have paid closer attention. That's what I get for trying to do this without sufficient time.
I dunno. Logic and reason are related to science and that's what I'm basing my decision on.At least you're honest enough to say outloud that your decision isn't because of anything related to science. I don't blame you for not trusting the government. They've clearly earned everyone's distrust but there is still the fact that hundreds of millions of doses have been administered with statistically insignificant numbers of serious problems. Then there's also the results. The pandemic is effectively over here in the U.S. where the vaccine is easily available and has been widely distributed while other parts of the world are still on lock down, precisely because they do not have the access to the vaccine that we've had here.
You surely could not have misunderstood my point.I dunno. Logic and reason are related to science and that's what I'm basing my decision on.
Yes, actually, it can. We know how long the vaccine stays in your body (about a month) and we are already have a reasonable expectation for how long the resulting immunity will last.And to say that there won't be a statistically significant number of problems can't be known for some time.
Did you seriously just suggest that lockdowns work? The lock downs did not do a thing to stop this virus and neither did wearing those ridiculous masks!And to say there are places that don't have the vaccine showing significant differences with places that do can't be based on lockdowns. Do you have the charts that show the numbers?
You certainly weren't clear at best. And to say I'm not basing my decision on science is more rhetoric than discussion.You surely could not have misunderstood my point.
On the short term. It can't be based on the long term, which is *important*, because a long term DOESN'T EXIST.Everything related to scientific iquirey into this vaccine supports its safety and effectiveness.
My post does not in any way imply that my decision is political. What politics are you talking about?Your decision, based on your previous post, is based on political considerations, not scientific ones.
Not according to one of the founders of the mRNA methods. How the spike protein affects humans in the long term has already shown unexpected results.Yes, actually, it can. We know how long the vaccine stays in your body (about a month) and we are already have a reasonable expectation for how long the resulting immunity will last.
YOU are the one that said lockdowns show if vaccine works or not. Here is your quote: "The pandemic is effectively over here in the U.S. where the vaccine is easily available and has been widely distributed while other parts of the world are still on lock down, precisely because they do not have the access to the vaccine that we've had here."Did you seriously just suggest that lockdowns work? The lock downs did not do a thing to stop this virus and neither did wearing those ridiculous masks!
No you haven't shown the numbers. There are no clear numbers, or charts, showing the rates of infection (and the method they used to determine infection) and the rates of death based on whether a location has or not had the vaccine. I for one would certainly change my mind based on the numbers but what we have so far supports my decision.I'm done with showing people numbers. The numbers are EASY to find for anyone who wants to look for them and I have no confidence that a mountain of numbers would convince you of anything anyway. I mean, are you not living in this country right now? Have you not just lived your own life through all these waste of time lock downs, masks and social distancing that didn't do a single thing? Sheesh!
How can we know no serious side effects from the vaccine will not arise two or three years down the road? That fact has certainly not been established by scientific observation.Citation for "Most serious problems with vaccines really begin to show up a year or more after vaccination."
Research vaccine development. There's a reason that it has historically taken one to two decades to develop a vaccine. If you're this ignorant of vaccine development you've no right to speak to anything about vaccines.Citation for "Most serious problems with vaccines really begin to show up a year or more after vaccination."
Clete's post to you illustrates his utter ignorance. The very people who push vaccines on us are the same people who push masks and lockdowns. That he doesn't realize this more than a year after masks and lockdowns began being pushed on us says he's ignorant of the entire narrative of the pandemic.You certainly weren't clear at best. And to say I'm not basing my decision on science is more rhetoric than discussion.
I'm definitely basing my decision on science.
On the short term. It can't be based on the long term, which is *important*, because a long term DOESN'T EXIST.
And since you admit we can't trust the government numbers, add least be wise enough to wait for independent numbers.
My post does not in any way imply that my decision is political. What politics are you talking about?
Not according to one of the founders of the mRNA methods. How the spike protein affects humans in the long term has already shown unexpected results.
It's you that won't look at any counter science. It's politics, right?
YOU are the one that said lockdowns show if vaccine works or not. Here is your quote: "The pandemic is effectively over here in the U.S. where the vaccine is easily available and has been widely distributed while other parts of the world are still on lock down, precisely because they do not have the access to the vaccine that we've had here."
No you haven't shown the numbers. There are no clear numbers, or charts, showing the rates of infection (and the method they used to determine infection) and the rates of death based on whether a location has or not had the vaccine. I for one would certainly change my mind based on the numbers but what we have so far supports my decision.
We are talking past one another and I no longer care about COVID enough to debate it any longer.YOU are the one that said lockdowns show if vaccine works or not. Here is your quote: "The pandemic is effectively over here in the U.S. where the vaccine is easily available and has been widely distributed while other parts of the world are still on lock down, precisely because they do not have the access to the vaccine that we've had here."
Right, Clete.We are talking past one another and I no longer care about COVID enough to debate it any longer.
As for the above quote, I wasn't suggesting that other countries were still on lock down because lock downs work but because they don't have the vaccine. In other words, the vaccine obviously works. All you have to do is look at the numbers in the US which are down over 90%. The vaccine is the only thing that was ever going to work and it works beautifully and all one has to do is spend maybe 30 seconds to find the numbers to prove it. Those who don't believe it, don't want to believe it and won't ever believe it no matter what. Those countries that don't have the vaccine are still scared out of their rational minds over COVID and so they have to do something and the natural tendency of the left is command and control, therefore, lock downs are still in place in spite of an entire globe's worth of absolute proof that they did exactly nothing at all to help prevent the spread of the disease.
Ok genius, let's put your claims to the test. Give us your numbers. If these vaccines are so dangerous, how many people do you expect to fall seriously ill or die from these coronavirus vaccines in, say, the next year?Seems the only people you will believe are those who have a financial conflict of interest where vaccines are concerned.
Estimate deaths for a year? You once again show your ignorance. Safety testing of vaccines normally runs over a 4 year period. Unfortunately for you no animal/safety studies of mrna vaccines have ever been completed successfully. It's how we know no safety testing was done by Phizer or Moderna. And this technology is not all that new. It was patented back in 1989 by Dr. Robert Malone while working at the Salk Institute. That means in 30+ years no one has ever successfully gotten FDA approval for an mrna vaccine. They've been attempted, but none ever got past animal testing. That's why animal testing was not done by Phizer or Moderna. Why do what they knew would fail? And the FDA allowed them to bypass testing. Why? Why drop all safety/animal testing when no attempted mrna vaccine ever made it past animal testing? Why turn the entire world into one massive test of an experimental mrna vaccine?Ok genius, let's put your claims to the test. Give us your numbers. If these vaccines are so dangerous, how many people do you expect to fall seriously ill or die from these coronavirus vaccines in, say, the next year?
Give us a percentage. What percentage of those who received the vaccine will become seriously ill, and what percentage of people will die, as a direct consequence of Trump's vaccines?
Trump ordered the FDA to bypass testing, oh thick one. You're forgetting that these coronavirus vaccines are Trump's babies. He willingly owns them himself, in his speeches. Why do you hate Trump so much?That's why animal testing was not done by Phizer or Moderna. Why do what they knew would fail? And the FDA allowed them to bypass testing. Why?
It would appear that you are lying:That's why animal testing was not done by Phizer or Moderna. Why do what they knew would fail? And the FDA allowed them to bypass testing.
I have executed several searches on your assertion and can find no evidence this ever happened, That you post no evidence for your assertion tells me you have none.Trump ordered the FDA to bypass testing, oh thick one. You're forgetting that these coronavirus vaccines are Trump's babies. He willingly owns them himself, in his speeches. Why do you hate Trump so much?
You mustn't have looked very hard and are rather clueless. Here are a couple of references:I have executed several searches on your assertion and can find no evidence this ever happened, That you post no evidence for your assertion tells me you have none.
It would appear that you are lying:
"COVID-19 vaccines underwent preclinical testing in animals and clinical trials in tens of thousands of people, which established their safety and efficacy. Such testing is also a prerequisite for receiving emergency use authorization by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. While deaths have occurred among vaccinated people, it is important to remember that more than 157 million people in the U.S. have been vaccinated, and that the rate of deaths among vaccinated people isn’t higher than that of unvaccinated people. This indicates that COVID-19 vaccines aren’t the cause of these deaths."
COVID-19 vaccines were tested in animals and clinical trials before receiving authorization; vaccinated people aren’t dying at a higher rate than unvaccinated people
COVID-19 vaccines underwent preclinical testing in animals and clinical trials in tens of thousands of people, which established their safety and efficacy. Such testing is also a prerequisite for receiving emergency use authorization by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. While deaths have...healthfeedback.org