Is the Law of Moses good or bad?

[Stripe]

That's right. But the one you let others invent for you does.

Nope. We can read for ourselves. What you say is counter-scriptural.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Maybe he doesn't want to, doesn't see himself doing this, or isn't for that type of thing.

Then why is he on here? Just to troll?

For a forum that's made for discussing, that method of "discussing" is very counterproductive.

 

[Jacob]

Then why is he on here? Just to troll?

For a forum that's made for discussing, that method of "discussing" is very counterproductive.

I am just recognizing that though I used to just want to quote scripture in life, I had to use my own words, but then discussing was something some people feel that they can't do. They can't discuss scripture because it takes away from scripture. It is different from the problem of quoting scripture to justify an incorrect position, as problems go. However, if this is or was a debate site I can see where using scripture or knowing what we are talking about is helpful. To make a post without scripture in it is possible. And talking or discussing scripture does not require posting it. If there can be a wrong interpretation then we wouldn't want to post it. But we should know scripture well enough to not have any fear of this. I am putting forth some ideas here to think about. But not quoting something is doing something no one was ever required to do. Unless you didn't think about posting any scripture to begin with. It then has to do with what I was committed to, or what I wanted to get out of someone else. I don't always have access to a computer where posting scripture is easier, but I like posting scripture and discussing it with you guys.

 

[Guyver]

For people to disappear at God's hand, or to be killed by God directly, is theoretically possible. But it is probably not how it is done.

I think you have spoken truly. Yet, it amazes me that this is not so completely apparent to anyone who calls them a believer, whatever variety they may be if the Bible is their basis for belief.

I mean, the Greeks were great with language, and as you know the Bible was written in a form of Greek in its original New Testament form. It states many things about Gods nature, and you know I place God is Love as the best three words in the Bible.

But, the Bible is also clear both by plain words, and Jesus’ teaching, that Gods nature is Omnipotent, Omnicient, and Omnipresent. That means God is all knowing, all powerful and everywhere present.

These are things I believe. So, it seems apparent to me that people who say they believe in God would also appreciate these aspects of belief regarding Gods nature. Yet, there is an enormous disconnect between myself and the believers here.

If people believe that God made the universe, that means he’s responsible or aware of every positive n of every single element, all the way down to subatomic particles, and even other parts of nature that we humans aren’t even aware.

Of course he could make people disappear. He can do anything. He could literally instantly dissolve the entire universe in a moments time. You are right, IMO, that is probably not how he rolls. But to think that capability is beyond him is inconsistent with clear Bible teaching.

 

[Jacob]

I think you have spoken truly. Yet, it amazes me that this is not so completely apparent to anyone who calls them a believer, whatever variety they may be if the Bible is their basis for belief.

I mean, the Greeks were great with language, and as you know the Bible was written in a form of Greek in its original New Testament form. It states many things about Gods nature, and you know I place God is Love as the best three words in the Bible.

But, the Bible is also clear both by plain words, and Jesus’ teaching, that Gods nature is Omnipotent, Omnicient, and Omnipresent. That means God is all knowing, all powerful and everywhere present.

These are things I believe. So, it seems apparent to me that people who say they believe in God would also appreciate these aspects of belief regarding Gods nature. Yet, there is an enormous disconnect between myself and the believers here.

If people believe that God made the universe, that means he’s responsible or aware of every positive n of every single element, all the way down to subatomic particles, and even other parts of nature that we humans aren’t even aware.

Of course he could make people disappear. He can do anything. He could literally instantly dissolve the entire universe in a moments time. You are right, IMO, that is probably not how he rolls. But to think that capability is beyond him is inconsistent with clear Bible teaching.

To think that God can just kill, He can. Because we leave room for the wrath of God not taking vengeance. And no one will escape God's just punishment. What of God's grace and mercy?

 

[Guyver]

He's constantly doing this.

Several times now I've asked him to provide post numbers, Bible verses, etc, where he's "proven" his position, and he has yet to do so even once.

I’m just so surprised that people of your level of seeming zeal and belief, claiming the Bible divine, or inerrant which ever your position are unaware of these things. And I have posted scriptures, and they get ignored or dismissed by many of you. And I do admit to a bit of struggle keeping you and RightDivider separated. IDK why...similar visuals or beliefs, not sure.

But I’ll tell you what, speaking to everyone here.....I’ll just go ahead and post the verses, and then ask you to tell me how it could be righteous.

PS. I know I said I was leaving this thread and I’m back in it, and I don’t like to be wishy-washy with my words. Generally, if I say a thing, I mean it.

Anyway, anyone who believes that Jesus loves the little children, but called for their slaughter in the OT, has some serious theological problems......IMHO. It’s just so obviously opposed theologically in my mind....there’s no question about it at all.

But, if one is bound mentally by religious indoctrination, they can easily dismiss things that counter their beliefs, be they fact or no. Like the flat earth people. Facts show them wrong, but they don’t see it.

 

[Guyver]

To think that God can just kill, He can. Because we leave room for the wrath of God not taking vengeance. And no one will escape God's just punishment. What of God's grace and mercy?

Well, if he actually has it, then it supersedes his wrath and vengeance, doesn’t it. Especially if you believe God is love, which obviously many people around here do not. That, or they don’t even know what love is. They are literally blind to love, believing that Jesus could kill little children.

 

[Jacob]

Anyway, anyone who believes that Jesus loves the little children, but called for their slaughter in the OT, has some serious theological problems......IMHO. It’s just so obviously opposed theologically in my mind....there’s no question about it at all.

But, if one is bound mentally by religious indoctrination, they can easily dismiss things that counter their beliefs, be they fact or no. Like the flat earth people. Facts show them wrong, but they don’t see it.

When I was a child I was taught that song. I believe the idea is that God is different in the New Testament from the way He was in the Old Testament. Yes, God is love. But the idea that God was different or that it was a different God then does not sit with me well. There must be a way to reconcile it all. Even if it means God still judges people. But alas my words fail.

 

[Jacob]

Well, if he actually has it, then it supersedes his wrath and vengeance, doesn’t it. Especially if you believe God is love, which obviously many people around here do not. That, or they don’t even know what love is. They are literally blind to love, believing that Jesus could kill little children.

I don't believe that anyone escapes his righteous judgment. Not even me. And even as a Christian I have sinned. So I would love for it to be a part of His judgment of Jesus Jesus being innocent. But I don't want to continue in sin.

Romans 6:1-2 NASB - What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

Hey! Take a look at this verse!

2 Corinthians 9:8 NASB - And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;

It is very positive surrounded by very positive verses.

 

[Guyver]

So you cannot simply QUOTE the scripture that you THINK is problematic? So typical... broad sweeping allegations.... and NO support provided.


How about it?

Deuteronomy 2

This is Moses having a conversation with God, and God speaking to him, telling him what to do. Just establishing this as fact.

"And the Lord spoke to me, saying: 3 ‘You have skirted this mountain long enough; turn northward. 4 And command the people, saying, “You are about to pass through the territory of your brethren, the descendants of Esau, who live in Seir; and they will be afraid of you. Therefore watch yourselves carefully. 5 Do not meddle with them, for I will not give you any of their land, no, not so much as one footstep, because I have given Mount Seir to Esau as a possession. 6 You shall buy food from them with money, that you may eat; and you shall also buy water from them with money, that you may drink."

A few verses later; "God" speaks again that this is what he says, and the response. Bold for emphasis.

" ‘Now rise and cross over the [e]Valley of the Zered.’ So we crossed over the Valley of the Zered. 14 And the time we took to come from Kadesh Barnea until we crossed over the Valley of the Zered was thirty-eight years, until all the generation of the men of war [f]was consumed from the midst of the camp, just as the Lord had sworn to them. 15 For indeed the hand of the Lord was against them, to destroy them from the midst of the camp until they [g]were consumed.

"And the Lord our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.

34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:"

Deuteronomy 2

 

[Right Divider]

Deuteronomy 2

This is Moses having a conversation with God, and God speaking to him, telling him what to do. Just establishing this as fact.

"And the Lord spoke to me, saying: 3 ‘You have skirted this mountain long enough; turn northward. 4 And command the people, saying, “You are about to pass through the territory of your brethren, the descendants of Esau, who live in Seir; and they will be afraid of you. Therefore watch yourselves carefully. 5 Do not meddle with them, for I will not give you any of their land, no, not so much as one footstep, because I have given Mount Seir to Esau as a possession. 6 You shall buy food from them with money, that you may eat; and you shall also buy water from them with money, that you may drink."

A few verses later; "God" speaks again that this is what he says, and the response. Bold for emphasis.

" ‘Now rise and cross over the [e]Valley of the Zered.’ So we crossed over the Valley of the Zered. 14 And the time we took to come from Kadesh Barnea until we crossed over the Valley of the Zered was thirty-eight years, until all the generation of the men of war [f]was consumed from the midst of the camp, just as the Lord had sworn to them. 15 For indeed the hand of the Lord was against them, to destroy them from the midst of the camp until they [g]were consumed.

"And the Lord our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.

34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:"

Deuteronomy 2

That's better.

First, there were reasons that the LORD gave them this command.
Second, the LORD God being the Creator of life has every right to the life of everyone of His creations. When it begins and when (and how) it ends.

So take your hatred of God to some other site; perhaps some atheist site would suit you well.

 

[Guyver]

That's better.

So take your hatred of God to some other site; perhaps some atheist site would suit you well.

Very interesting. It’s almost like you don’t like what I say, so you’d like me to leave. Well, that is one way to deal with truth. It’s the scardey cat way of running away from it.

Yet, Love is as love does, so it would be my pleasure to not discuss it further if that would be in your best interest.

 

[Guyver]

So take your hatred of God to some other site; perhaps some atheist site would suit you well.

PS. Are you able to recommend a few good atheist sites for me? I don’t know of any, but I would be happy to discuss my beliefs in God with atheists, no problem. I would love it. Atheists are smart. At least, in my experience with them. I’ve never met a dumb atheist anyway.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I’m just so surprised that people of your level of seeming zeal and belief, claiming the Bible divine, or inerrant which ever your position are unaware of these things.

Not my position.

My position is that the Bible was inerrant and inspired in it's original manuscripts, and that errors have indeed crept in over time due to human error and mal-intent.

And I have posted scriptures, and they get ignored or dismissed by many of you.

The last few times you made broad sweeping claims and were asked to post scriptures to support your claims, those requests were ignored.

And I do admit to a bit of struggle keeping you and RightDivider separated. IDK why...similar visuals or beliefs, not sure.

We do believe very similarly.

But I’ll tell you what, speaking to everyone here.....I’ll just go ahead and post the verses, and then ask you to tell me how it could be righteous.

Reading through the rest of your post, I see no verses here. (Haven't read the rest of the thread yet, so I'm hopeful...)

PS. I know I said I was leaving this thread and I’m back in it, and I don’t like to be wishy-washy with my words. Generally, if I say a thing, I mean it.

Anyway, anyone who believes that Jesus loves the little children, but called for their slaughter in the OT, has some serious theological problems......IMHO. It’s just so obviously opposed theologically in my mind....there’s no question about it at all.

You're assuming that the two are mutually exclusive, when if you were to look at it from a different perspective (read, "paradigm shift"), the two would be completely in line with each other.

But, if one is bound mentally by religious indoctrination, they can easily dismiss things that counter their beliefs, be they fact or no. Like the flat earth people. Facts show them wrong, but they don’t see it.

And you have been shown to be wrong, but refuse to see it.

 

[Guyver]

The last few times you made broad sweeping claims and were asked to post scriptures to support your claims, those requests were ignored.

Really? Maybe I missed something, I didn’t see your response about the spirit of jealousy and the torture of women through fear.

You're assuming that the two are mutually exclusive, when if you were to look at it from a different perspective (read, "paradigm shift"), the two would be completely in line with each other.

I assume that the two are mutually exclusive because they are. I know this because I know what evil is. It was done in my granddads time during WWII. That’s when the nazis went about attempting to exterminate the Jews. The extermination of a people....that’s the evil.

But, it seems you don’t consider the extermination of people a bad thing.

 

[Guyver]

And you have been shown to be wrong, but refuse to see it.

Well, no. I’ve been shown that you have different beliefs than I do, I haven’t been shown to be wrong. I’ve been shown assumptions you and others are willing to embrace as truth that are the result of your religious indoctrination.

Religious indoctrination is a very powerful thing. It can make people strap bombs on their back and run into buildings so they can die killing people.

 

[Stripe]

I haven’t been shown to be wrong.

A wise man considers everything.

Nope. A wise man ignores idiocy.

Yes...I guess that is true. A wise man dismisses idiocy.

Religious indoctrination is a powerful thing.

 

[Guyver]

Religious indoctrination is a powerful thing.

You’re trying to use this as an example of me being wrong about something?

A true wise man considers everything before dismissing it. Even the Bible teaches this. It states it is foolish for a man to answer a matter before hearing it.

Proverbs 18:13

 

[Right Divider]

Very interesting. It’s almost like you don’t like what I say, so you’d like me to leave.

You're so perceptive.

Well, that is one way to deal with truth. It’s the scardey cat way of running away from it.

:rotfl:

Yet, Love is as love does, so it would be my pleasure to not discuss it further if that would be in your best interest.

:the_wave:

You presume to be the authority on all things. On this site, we prefer God for such things.

 

[Right Divider]

PS. Are you able to recommend a few good atheist sites for me? I don’t know of any, but I would be happy to discuss my beliefs in God with atheists, no problem. I would love it. Atheists are smart. At least, in my experience with them. I’ve never met a dumb atheist anyway.

Oh the irony.