Is the Holy Spirit Female?
- Thread starter WatchmanOnTheWall
- Start date
Tigger 2
Active member
'Holy Spirit' in the NT Greek text is in the neuter gender and therefore the neuter pronouns meaning 'it,' 'itself,' are used with it in the NT Greek!
Any strictly literal Bible translation would have to use 'it' for the holy spirit. Since it is really not a person, but God's active force -or power-, a literal translation would be helpful in this case.
'Holy spirit' in the OT Hebrew text is in the feminine gender.
"a 1. The Hebrew, like all Semitic languages, recognizes only two genders in the noun, a masculine and a feminine. Inanimate objects and abstract ideas, which other languages sometimes indicate by the neuter,
are regarded in Hebrew as masculine or feminine, more often the latter [feminine]"! - Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar, p. 222, Oxford at the Clarendon Press, 1910. (also seventeenth edition)
So, in the NT 'holy spirit' is neuter. And in the OT it is feminine (which is often used for neuter).
And when we combine these two, we find that 'holy spirit' is certainly not in the masculine gender, but, instead, is neuter!
This is important because in both the Old Testament and the New, a mature person will have a literal personal name ('Jesus,' 'John,' 'Mary,' etc.) and literal descriptive words ('man,' 'woman,' 'husband,' 'priest,' etc.) in the gender which matches the sex of that person.
Of course those spirit persons in heaven ('God,' 'angels,' 'cherubim,' 'seraphim,' etc.) who are sexless are given the masculine gender in the Scriptures as a measure of importance.
But the 'holy spirit' (literal descriptive word) is neuter, and it has no personal name (which a real person as important as the HS would have).
..................................
"On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the Spirit as a divine energy or power." - A Catholic Dictionary.
"The majority of NT texts reveal God's spirit as something, not someone" - New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 575, Vol. 13, 1967.
"In the NT there is no direct suggestion of a doctrine of the Trinity. The spirit is conceived as an impersonal power by which God effects his will through Christ." - An Encyclopedia of Religion, Ferm (ed.), p. 344.
"It is important to realize that for the first Christians the Spirit was thought of in terms of divine power." - New Bible Dictionary, p. 1139, Tyndale House Publishers, 1984.
"As in earlier Jewish thought, 'pneuma' [spirit] denotes that power which [not 'who'] man experiences as relating him to the spiritual realm .... But by far the most frequent use of 'pneuma' in the NT ... is as a reference to the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, that power which is most immediately of God as to source and nature." - p.693, Vol. 3, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986.
Any strictly literal Bible translation would have to use 'it' for the holy spirit. Since it is really not a person, but God's active force -or power-, a literal translation would be helpful in this case.
'Holy spirit' in the OT Hebrew text is in the feminine gender.
"a 1. The Hebrew, like all Semitic languages, recognizes only two genders in the noun, a masculine and a feminine. Inanimate objects and abstract ideas, which other languages sometimes indicate by the neuter,
are regarded in Hebrew as masculine or feminine, more often the latter [feminine]"! - Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar, p. 222, Oxford at the Clarendon Press, 1910. (also seventeenth edition)
So, in the NT 'holy spirit' is neuter. And in the OT it is feminine (which is often used for neuter).
And when we combine these two, we find that 'holy spirit' is certainly not in the masculine gender, but, instead, is neuter!
This is important because in both the Old Testament and the New, a mature person will have a literal personal name ('Jesus,' 'John,' 'Mary,' etc.) and literal descriptive words ('man,' 'woman,' 'husband,' 'priest,' etc.) in the gender which matches the sex of that person.
Of course those spirit persons in heaven ('God,' 'angels,' 'cherubim,' 'seraphim,' etc.) who are sexless are given the masculine gender in the Scriptures as a measure of importance.
But the 'holy spirit' (literal descriptive word) is neuter, and it has no personal name (which a real person as important as the HS would have).
..................................
"On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the Spirit as a divine energy or power." - A Catholic Dictionary.
"The majority of NT texts reveal God's spirit as something, not someone" - New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 575, Vol. 13, 1967.
"In the NT there is no direct suggestion of a doctrine of the Trinity. The spirit is conceived as an impersonal power by which God effects his will through Christ." - An Encyclopedia of Religion, Ferm (ed.), p. 344.
"It is important to realize that for the first Christians the Spirit was thought of in terms of divine power." - New Bible Dictionary, p. 1139, Tyndale House Publishers, 1984.
"As in earlier Jewish thought, 'pneuma' [spirit] denotes that power which [not 'who'] man experiences as relating him to the spiritual realm .... But by far the most frequent use of 'pneuma' in the NT ... is as a reference to the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, that power which is most immediately of God as to source and nature." - p.693, Vol. 3, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Further enhancing our discussion.......
Further enhancing our discussion.......
~*~*~
First to all following, I recommend reading my former posts here on 'God' and 'gender' in their metaphysical, relational and esoteric significance. This is vital in going on further in our research into the Holy Spirit as 'feminine'. God's character and nature has both 'masculine' and 'feminine' qualities and attributes, - these are expressed thru 'personality', as 'God' is also the SOURCE of all 'personality' and all 'personalities' - now a few points towards the dialogue below -
-----------------------
Chair makes a solid observation that while 'wind' and 'spirit in the hebrew is rendered as 'female' in gender, this does not necessarily make wind or spirit a female personality or 'person'. This would be accepted by most all orthodox Jews, since they do not assume or propose in their theology, the Spirit of God being a person, much less a person within a Trinity. I gather liberal progressive Jews of a more mystical inclination would honor Wisdom or the Shekinah as a feminine quality, spiritual presence or expression of 'God', since 'God' is both 'Father' and 'Mother' in all realms of relational reality, where procreation exists and the duality of both genders synergized.... engage one another. In fact as I expounded on earlier,...this is a universal truth revealed in the regeneration of life (Nature).
View attachment 26074
It is WOTW's insistence in holding to a presumed belief that that Holy Spirit MUST be a 'person' within a divine Trinity that is at issue here, but a purely monotheistic unitarian view does not presume or necessitate such a view, as the Spirit of God does not need to be a 'person' per se....but will naturally embody, express and reveal the 'personality' or 'character' of 'God' in its activity, since that very Spirit is God's own. So, one can view the Holy Spirit as being feminine, without necessarily making that spirit into a person. It just so happens that since 'God' is both a 'Father' and 'Mother' within creation....Deity has within it, the essence and and total potentiality of all 'masculine' and 'feminine' qualities, however those might be expressed thru 'personality' and beyond. Remember....YHWH is INFINITE. - He/She/IT contains all genders, as source and potentializer, but is also beyond all differentiation, duality, division as well.....as Pure Spirit.
I happen to honor 'God' as both 'Father' and 'Mother' EQUALLY....and this is of utmost importance, as essential, relationally speaking, as to honor both 'Creator' and 'Creation'. It could not be otherwise, since 'God' and 'Man' are revealed in mirror image as BOTH genders, equally in synergy. The two are one.
~*~*~
I highly recommend Simona Rich's study of the Holy Spirit here and here. (these are offered as research and educational resources for our study of the subject fostering further discussion)
Further enhancing our discussion.......
~*~*~
First to all following, I recommend reading my former posts here on 'God' and 'gender' in their metaphysical, relational and esoteric significance. This is vital in going on further in our research into the Holy Spirit as 'feminine'. God's character and nature has both 'masculine' and 'feminine' qualities and attributes, - these are expressed thru 'personality', as 'God' is also the SOURCE of all 'personality' and all 'personalities' - now a few points towards the dialogue below -
-----------------------
Chair makes a solid observation that while 'wind' and 'spirit in the hebrew is rendered as 'female' in gender, this does not necessarily make wind or spirit a female personality or 'person'. This would be accepted by most all orthodox Jews, since they do not assume or propose in their theology, the Spirit of God being a person, much less a person within a Trinity. I gather liberal progressive Jews of a more mystical inclination would honor Wisdom or the Shekinah as a feminine quality, spiritual presence or expression of 'God', since 'God' is both 'Father' and 'Mother' in all realms of relational reality, where procreation exists and the duality of both genders synergized.... engage one another. In fact as I expounded on earlier,...this is a universal truth revealed in the regeneration of life (Nature).
View attachment 26074
It is WOTW's insistence in holding to a presumed belief that that Holy Spirit MUST be a 'person' within a divine Trinity that is at issue here, but a purely monotheistic unitarian view does not presume or necessitate such a view, as the Spirit of God does not need to be a 'person' per se....but will naturally embody, express and reveal the 'personality' or 'character' of 'God' in its activity, since that very Spirit is God's own. So, one can view the Holy Spirit as being feminine, without necessarily making that spirit into a person. It just so happens that since 'God' is both a 'Father' and 'Mother' within creation....Deity has within it, the essence and and total potentiality of all 'masculine' and 'feminine' qualities, however those might be expressed thru 'personality' and beyond. Remember....YHWH is INFINITE. - He/She/IT contains all genders, as source and potentializer, but is also beyond all differentiation, duality, division as well.....as Pure Spirit.
I happen to honor 'God' as both 'Father' and 'Mother' EQUALLY....and this is of utmost importance, as essential, relationally speaking, as to honor both 'Creator' and 'Creation'. It could not be otherwise, since 'God' and 'Man' are revealed in mirror image as BOTH genders, equally in synergy. The two are one.
~*~*~
I highly recommend Simona Rich's study of the Holy Spirit here and here. (these are offered as research and educational resources for our study of the subject fostering further discussion)
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
God is the origin of both genders, and expresses BOTH......
God is the origin of both genders, and expresses BOTH......
Yes, - as noted earlier on God and gender here, and in a previous response to your note of 'neuter gender' of the spirit here. - I make the case with understanding the context of 'God and gender'....where such an understanding would recognize that to honor 'God' in totality, would include our recognition and relational-experience of 'Deity' as being to us, both 'Father' and 'Mother', as as divine Personality...RELATING to us in both 'masculine' and 'feminine' ways, since God begets us, and nutures us in the full capacity of both gender-expressions.
While I may not claim a dogmatic belief of the Holy Spirit being somehow a female 'person', which I dont think is necessary...it stands to reason and logic that the Holy Spirit embodies, reveals and expresses the feminine aspect of Deity, as a nuturing mothering Spirit, and that Wisdom (Sophia/Chokmah) and the Shekinah...also represent feminine expressions of God's character. So, I dont think just limiting Spirit to a 'neuter gender' helps us in any way, except to note a limitation of greek linguistics, since the Spirit of 'God' MUST and WILL by nature...have all the qualities and attributes of both genders. It would naturally be both rational and logical, in fact 'appropriate' to see the Holy Spirit as the feminine aspect of 'God' (without necesarily personifying this spirit). It just so happens that God is Spirit, so God's personality will also be contained in and expressed thru His Spirit.
God is the origin of both genders, and expresses BOTH......
Yes, - as noted earlier on God and gender here, and in a previous response to your note of 'neuter gender' of the spirit here. - I make the case with understanding the context of 'God and gender'....where such an understanding would recognize that to honor 'God' in totality, would include our recognition and relational-experience of 'Deity' as being to us, both 'Father' and 'Mother', as as divine Personality...RELATING to us in both 'masculine' and 'feminine' ways, since God begets us, and nutures us in the full capacity of both gender-expressions.
While I may not claim a dogmatic belief of the Holy Spirit being somehow a female 'person', which I dont think is necessary...it stands to reason and logic that the Holy Spirit embodies, reveals and expresses the feminine aspect of Deity, as a nuturing mothering Spirit, and that Wisdom (Sophia/Chokmah) and the Shekinah...also represent feminine expressions of God's character. So, I dont think just limiting Spirit to a 'neuter gender' helps us in any way, except to note a limitation of greek linguistics, since the Spirit of 'God' MUST and WILL by nature...have all the qualities and attributes of both genders. It would naturally be both rational and logical, in fact 'appropriate' to see the Holy Spirit as the feminine aspect of 'God' (without necesarily personifying this spirit). It just so happens that God is Spirit, so God's personality will also be contained in and expressed thru His Spirit.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Yes I do believe the Holy Spirit is a person and not an inanimate object, because She can speak for example. Inanimate objects can't do that. Your 'insistence' that God the Father is both male and female is as observed as calling the Holy Spirit an inanimate object. Jesus was a man, not a woman and Jesus said that if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father. They are both male, not male and female.
When God said 'let US make man in OUR image', Eve was made in the image of the female Holy Spirit and is why she looked different to Adam who was made in God the Fathers image. Two different images (US & OUR), two different beings (Adam and EVE). Otherwise Eve would have also been male (let's call him Steve) and the human race would never have been more that two people.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Thanks, I had forgotten the NT uses a natural gender for the Holy Spirit rather than male. That adds even more weight to the Holy being female rather than male. (Perhaps I shouldn't mention weight when talking about the Holy Spirit, she might get offended)
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
I just want to correct myself; the NT uses a neutral gender for the Holy Spirit and not He. This adds more weight to the fact that the Holy Spirit is a She.
no, it doesn't do any such thing. neutral is neutral- not female.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Deity is Echad (one)
Deity is Echad (one)
Nothing in my former commentary and observations about 'God and gender' infer or assume that the Holy Spirit is an 'inanimate object'. Neither have I claimed anywhere that 'God the Father', is the same as 'God the Mother', since their distinction and difference is apparent. 'God' is 'one' (echad) in his essential essence, nature and being. It just so happens that 'God' is a 'Father-Mother-God' as a relational 'title' as regards the 'Creator' with-in the 'Creation'. 'God' both fathers and mothers creation. The unity of God ever remains.
This is continuing the misunderstanding of my discourse so far in understanding 'God' and 'gender', metaphysically speaking. 'God' is the source of gender, because both 'male' and 'female' inheres, originates and proceeds forth from the one essence of Deity. God is the sole source of all personality, so naturally the Spirit of God will express both 'masculine' and 'feminine' personality.
I propose in my commentary that recognizing this is enough, since 'God' is echad. This unity of Being has the inherent potentializing qualities of male and female, whose synergy is recognized within CREATION. Therefore to worship God includes seeing the value and reality of God in the totality of his being, as divine 'father' and 'mother'.
A pure monotheistic-unitarian view of God is uni-singular, uni-personal, 'God' as One Personality. (if we assume original Deity as The Universal Father, this 'God' must also be The Universal Mother). - hence within this model, there is a dual unity.
Deity is Echad (one)
Nothing in my former commentary and observations about 'God and gender' infer or assume that the Holy Spirit is an 'inanimate object'. Neither have I claimed anywhere that 'God the Father', is the same as 'God the Mother', since their distinction and difference is apparent. 'God' is 'one' (echad) in his essential essence, nature and being. It just so happens that 'God' is a 'Father-Mother-God' as a relational 'title' as regards the 'Creator' with-in the 'Creation'. 'God' both fathers and mothers creation. The unity of God ever remains.
This is continuing the misunderstanding of my discourse so far in understanding 'God' and 'gender', metaphysically speaking. 'God' is the source of gender, because both 'male' and 'female' inheres, originates and proceeds forth from the one essence of Deity. God is the sole source of all personality, so naturally the Spirit of God will express both 'masculine' and 'feminine' personality.
I propose in my commentary that recognizing this is enough, since 'God' is echad. This unity of Being has the inherent potentializing qualities of male and female, whose synergy is recognized within CREATION. Therefore to worship God includes seeing the value and reality of God in the totality of his being, as divine 'father' and 'mother'.
A pure monotheistic-unitarian view of God is uni-singular, uni-personal, 'God' as One Personality. (if we assume original Deity as The Universal Father, this 'God' must also be The Universal Mother). - hence within this model, there is a dual unity.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Spirit is neither male nor female.
The Hebrew and Greek have words that have "genders".
That is not unusual. My limited knowledge of Spanish shows that Spanish also has words with genders, the word house is female, la casa, way is el camino, male
Not because houses are female and the way is male but evidently the language developed that way.
English does not, as far as I know, have gender distinctions, all the words unless specifically talking about he or she, etc. are gender neutral
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
No, what I am saying is that neutral is nearer to female than male is.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
If you are referring to God as the Trinity or God Head, then I would agree that God has both male and female attributes but if you are talking about God the Father within the Trinity then no, He is only male.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
The OT has female pronouns for the HS while the NT has neutral pronouns and you can't call the HS an inanimate object, She is a Person.
Say what?
There are no pronouns. You really don't understand. I won't bother repeating what I have said before- you are not open to facts that are uncomfortable to you.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
My mother, the Holy Spirit......
My mother, the Holy Spirit......
~*~*~
We see in the Gospel of the Hebrews that Jesus refers to the Spirit in the feminine gender:
-Source
We would also note a further quote by Jerome from this or another earlier hebrew gospel of the Holy Spirit descending upon Jesus being the one who says "this is my beloved Son". - so in this account at his baptism,...the Holy Spirit is speaking from a mother's perspective. I would indicate for those conservatives who might be shocked over such a new point of view,...that even within the metaphysics of orthodox Christian creedology...it is no stretch or not too difficult to accept that the Holy Spirit could be seen as a 'mothering presence' within the orthodox Trinity, as a Father-Mother-Son trinity conception. In any case, as in my former commentary I unlike WOTW am not proclaiming or promoting the Holy Spirit as a female 'person', but simply honoring 'God' as both 'father' and 'mother'. - if one chooses to define or propose some personification of configuration of 'God' further (thru any number of persons or personalities), that is their perogative
- The hebrew gospel of Matthew
My mother, the Holy Spirit......
~*~*~
We see in the Gospel of the Hebrews that Jesus refers to the Spirit in the feminine gender:
-Source
We would also note a further quote by Jerome from this or another earlier hebrew gospel of the Holy Spirit descending upon Jesus being the one who says "this is my beloved Son". - so in this account at his baptism,...the Holy Spirit is speaking from a mother's perspective. I would indicate for those conservatives who might be shocked over such a new point of view,...that even within the metaphysics of orthodox Christian creedology...it is no stretch or not too difficult to accept that the Holy Spirit could be seen as a 'mothering presence' within the orthodox Trinity, as a Father-Mother-Son trinity conception. In any case, as in my former commentary I unlike WOTW am not proclaiming or promoting the Holy Spirit as a female 'person', but simply honoring 'God' as both 'father' and 'mother'. - if one chooses to define or propose some personification of configuration of 'God' further (thru any number of persons or personalities), that is their perogative
- The hebrew gospel of Matthew
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
You can't speak Hebrew but you can lie, badly.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
~*~*~
We see in the Gospel of the Hebrews that Jesus refers to the Spirit in the feminine gender:
-Source
We would also note a further quote by Jerome from this or another earlier hebrew gospel of the Holy Spirit descending upon Jesus being the one who says "this is my beloved Son". - so in this account at his baptism,...the Holy Spirit is speaking from a mother's perspective. I would indicate for those conservatives who might be shocked over such a new point of view,...that even within the metaphysics of orthodox Christian creedology...it is no stretch or not too difficult to accept that the Holy Spirit could be seen as a 'mothering presence' within the orthodox Trinity, as a Father-Mother-Son trinity conception. In any case, as in my former commentary I unlike WOTW am not proclaiming or promoting the Holy Spirit as a female 'person', but simply honoring 'God' as both 'father' and 'mother'. - if one chooses to define or propose some personification of configuration of 'God' further (thru any number of persons or personalities), that is their perogative
- The hebrew gospel of Matthew
Yep, more confirmation the HS is female.
Watchman, here is your challenge:
Count how many times pronouns such as "him" or "he" are used for inanimate objects in Exodus 4.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/exo4.pdf
Count how many times pronouns such as "him" or "he" are used for inanimate objects in Exodus 4.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/exo4.pdf
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
'God' and 'personality'..........
'God' and 'personality'..........
The link isnt working for me.
If you've followed my commentary, it is logically sound, metaphysically and philosophically speaking to view 'God' as both 'father' and 'mother', since 'man' comprises both, being the reflected image and likeness of his Creator. We naturally call 'God' Father because the father holds an archetypal priority or preeminence in the procreative order, but in the whole of nature and character of divinity, both 'masculine' and 'feminine' qualities and attributes are equally inherent and integral in and to the divine nature, and expressed thru-out creation.
Since 'God' is spirit, the Spirit of 'God' has the totality of God's nature, expresseing all the potentials and qualities of 'gender'. The debate is on whether the Holy Spirit is a 'person', or just the active force, power, influence of 'God'. Orthodox Christian Trinitarian theology has its own definition for 'person', and a Jewish concept of God as a 'personality' would also be an interesting discussion. As noted, all 'persons' and 'personality' has its source in 'God' who we may assume to be a divine 'person', but since infinite God's personality is beyond any finite defintion or understanding. On another level, 'God' could be an infinite personality (and more), but may not be a compound of 3 distinct personalities. 'God' however IS the source of all 'personality' and all 'personalities'.
For those interested in an expanded research on God the Father as the source of all personality, and interesting insights on 'personality' itself go here. (see the video-lecture presentation linked in this post).
'God' and 'personality'..........
The link isnt working for me.
If you've followed my commentary, it is logically sound, metaphysically and philosophically speaking to view 'God' as both 'father' and 'mother', since 'man' comprises both, being the reflected image and likeness of his Creator. We naturally call 'God' Father because the father holds an archetypal priority or preeminence in the procreative order, but in the whole of nature and character of divinity, both 'masculine' and 'feminine' qualities and attributes are equally inherent and integral in and to the divine nature, and expressed thru-out creation.
Since 'God' is spirit, the Spirit of 'God' has the totality of God's nature, expresseing all the potentials and qualities of 'gender'. The debate is on whether the Holy Spirit is a 'person', or just the active force, power, influence of 'God'. Orthodox Christian Trinitarian theology has its own definition for 'person', and a Jewish concept of God as a 'personality' would also be an interesting discussion. As noted, all 'persons' and 'personality' has its source in 'God' who we may assume to be a divine 'person', but since infinite God's personality is beyond any finite defintion or understanding. On another level, 'God' could be an infinite personality (and more), but may not be a compound of 3 distinct personalities. 'God' however IS the source of all 'personality' and all 'personalities'.
For those interested in an expanded research on God the Father as the source of all personality, and interesting insights on 'personality' itself go here. (see the video-lecture presentation linked in this post).
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