CherubRam
New member
I think they are unable to negotiate between the literal and parabolic verses of the bible.
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
I think they are unable to negotiate between the literal and parabolic verses of the bible.
Jesus said "I am the Bread of Life", "I am the way", "I am the door"...
did you recently learn the word parabolic ? you sure use it a lot
CherubRam
New member
Fool
fo͞ol/
noun
noun: fool; plural noun: fools
1. a person who acts unwisely or imprudently; a silly person.
synonyms: idiot, ###, blockhead, dunce, dolt, ignoramus, imbecile, cretin, dullard, simpleton, moron, clod; More
Everyone says or does something foolish some time, but what of those who are constant? What would you call them?
fo͞ol/
noun
noun: fool; plural noun: fools
1. a person who acts unwisely or imprudently; a silly person.
synonyms: idiot, ###, blockhead, dunce, dolt, ignoramus, imbecile, cretin, dullard, simpleton, moron, clod; More
Everyone says or does something foolish some time, but what of those who are constant? What would you call them?
way 2 go
Well-known member
this verse is literal
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.
CherubRam
New member
Bread of Life: Make him a part of you so that you may have life.
The Way: He is the WAY to the Truth and Life.
The Door: He stands at the door of our hearts and minds knocking to come in and dine with us.
CherubRam
New member
That is correct, it is literal, but the eternal punishment is death.
way 2 go
Well-known member
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.
death as a place and death as an existence without God.
CherubRam
New member
Death is a state of being. There are two deaths. The first death is called soul sleep. In the final judgement everyone is brought back into being for the final judgement. The sheep obtain life immortal, and the goats are cut off from their lives forever. The LAKE as a parable represents a body of people, just like other places in the bible where bodies of water represents different groups of people. As for the word FIRE, it is often used in different forms to mean JUDGEMENT.
It is believed that people who can not come to terms with the use of parables in the bible, that they are the ones perishing. It is thought that they are spiritually blind because they can not understand what is actually being said.
Isaiah 6:9
He said, “Go and tell this people: “‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
YES, it is.
ONLY the righteous go into eternal life. That proves that those who go away into eternal punishment do NOT have eternal life in hell being punished. The eternal punishment HAS to be something OTHER than eternal conscious torment. The wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23. The eternal punishment is eternal death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
way 2 go
Well-known member
correct spiritual death is a state of being .
Rom_7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
alive but spiritually dead here and
spiritually dead and conscious in the lake of fire
Rom_7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
the story's teaching was a warning conscious punishment is true
no one stops existing, ever
the goats have nothing to do except think about their past life
and have shame and everlasting contempt
Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
the lake in Rev 21:8 is the punishment
Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
the eternal conscious punishment deniers have difficulties with more than just parables .
Romans 6:23
The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
In order to accept eternal conscious punishment, you have to DENY Romans 6:23.
You have more difficulties than just the parables.
Here is what the Bible says about people who deny that the wicked will be destroyed:
The stupid man cannot know;
the fool cannot understand this:
that though the wicked sprout like grass
and all evildoers flourish,
they are doomed to destruction forever;
Psalm 92:6-7 ESV
You have to deny Psalm 92:7 in order to deny that the wicked will be destroyed. This puts you in the category of someone who "cannot know" and "cannot understand" that the wicked will be destroyed.
It is not surprising that you continuously argue against the Biblical Doctrine of the destruction of the wicked, since according to the Bible, you cannot know and cannot understand that the wicked will be destroyed. Keep on arguing against what the Bible says because that only proves that you are spiritually blind.
way 2 go
Well-known member
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
eternal life is not talking about being alive
it is talking life in Jesus
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Rom 6:23 ...but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
they are alive but not in Christ , alive in the lake of fire
no
Illegitimate Totality Transfer of death , again
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
Rom_7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
Mat_8:22 And Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead."
alive but needing life
Joh_10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
way 2 go
Well-known member
Rom_7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
:nono:
the wicked are destroyed from the earth forever no, coming back .
Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
I'm in agreement with the bible
I am pointing out your
Illegitimate Totality Transfer of death , again, again , and again
Do you agree with this part of the Bible, or do you deny that the wicked will be destroyed:
Psalm 92:6-7
The stupid man cannot know;
the fool cannot understand this:
that though the wicked sprout like grass
and all evildoers flourish,
they are doomed to destruction forever
Do you agree with this part of the Bible, or do you believe the wicked will continue to exist forever in hell being tormented alive? Psalm 37:10 "The wicked will be no more". If you think that the wicked will continue to exist, then the Bible is wrong when it says "the wicked will be no more".
If you were in agreement with the Bible, then you would believe that the wicked are doomed to destruction, they will be destroyed and they will be no more. If you were in agreement with the Bible, you wouldn't believe that the wicked will go to hell when they where they will life forever in torment, since there is no verse in the Bible that ever says that.
But you can continue to argue you against what the Bible says, and I know that you will since the Bible says that you cannot know or understand that the wicked are doomed to destruction.
Timotheos makes some pretty convincing points -
way 2 go
Well-known member
the wicked are destroyed from the earth forever no, coming back .
Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
I agree with the bible that the wicked will suffer
alive yet spiritually dead in fire.
Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
the wicked shall not be
consider his place, and it shall not be.
clearly talking about here on earth
I do agree with the bible I don't agree with your misrepresentation of the bible
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I am just clearing up your misrepresentation of the bible
and your Illegitimate Totality Transfer of death
way 2 go
Well-known member
so do you have an Illegitimate Totality Transfer of the meaning of death ?
can you be spiritually dead and alive?
Mat_8:22 And Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead."
Rom_7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
Thanks! According to the Bible, those who deny that the wicked will be destroyed are "Stupid" and "Fools".
Psalm 92:6-7
It is surprising how many people are willing to deny that the wicked will be destroyed when they know that this makes them stupid fools according to the Bible.
No, you are spreading your confusion around.
Psalm 37:10 says that the wicked will be no more. There is no "Illegitimate Totality Transfer" in that. The Bible says that the wicked will be NO MORE and they will certainly be NO MORE after they are destroyed. If you are correct, then the wicked will continue to exist forever in hell being tortured alive. That is a contradiction of what the Bible says.
I also do not have a Illegitimate Totality Transfer" of the definition of death. You have NOT proven that "Death" really means "Eternal life in hell being tortured alive". Can you show me even ONE verse from the Bible that says "Death REALLY means eternal life in hell being tortured alive"? I'll bet that you can't. For that matter, can you show me even ONE verse from the Bible that actually says "Bad people go to hell when they die where they will be tortured or tormented alive for all eternity"? I want you to understand that when I ask you to show me a verse that says this, I am not asking for a verse that doesn't say that. That may seem obvious, but you don't know how many times I've asked Tormentists to show me a verse that says the wicked go to hell when they die where they will be tortured alive forever and they show me a verse that doesn't say that at all!
So you believe that the wicked will be alive and will not be destroyed.
According to the Bible, only Stupid Fools believe that the wicked will not be destroyed. PSalm 92:6-7 You are showing the error of Illegitimate Totality Transfer becasue you are insisting that "DEATH" can only mean "Eternal Life in Hell being tortured alive". The Bible does not say that the people in hell are "Spiritually dead but really alive". The Bible says that those who are sent to Gehenna will be destroyed there, both their bodies and their souls. You are misrepresenting the Bible in order to hold onto the traditions of men, the tradition of eternal torture. Why don't you just accept what the Bible says? Do you have such a low view of Jesus Christ that you just can't accept that what He says is true? He said that the way is wide that leads to DESTRUCTION, but you claim that Jesus is wrong, the wide way doesn't lead to destruction at all, but to eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever.
Think of the damage you are doing to God's good name when you claim that He is the author of eternal torture. If you can't accept that the wages of sin is death just because the Bible says so, at least accept that the wages of sin is death for God's sake! You make God into an eternal torturer. You make God seem to be unjust. Just stop misrepresenting the Bible for the sake of your tradition.