oh no, not another man made religion
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
genuineoriginal
New member
Do you know there is a difference between putting out a fire (quench) and letting a fire die out?
Krsto
Well-known member
Yup, "30,000 sects and more springing up every day" as you Catholics like to say.
Krsto
Well-known member
Indeed. So God isn't going to stop the process of decomposition of human bodies but it will die out if no more people die.
genuineoriginal
New member
Yes.
The scripture states that the fire will not be quenched (intentionally put out) but it doesn't say whether the fire will burn itself out or not when it runs out of fuel.
There is no day and night in hell.
The torment of Rev.14:11 ends after the 5th vial which is why they then are deceived that they can destroy Israel as the 6th and 7th vial shows.
The angels mentioned are the unfaithful prophets/ goats of the ages.
Both spirits and people are a creation. A creation cannot be alive in the consuming fire, but they can be tormented by the fire first.
The state of the rich man who kept the blessings of the covenant for himself and cared nothing for those outside of it. Both satan and the wicked of all ages will be annialated in the lake of fire.
There is no day and night in the lake of fire and forever and ever is to the end of the age (of the mill.)
However even they will experience the second death after that--
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
etc
way 2 go
Well-known member
eternal life for Christians and eternal punishment for the unrighteous .
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
dodge
New member
I suggest you read the bible and STOP listening to folks that have ZERO clue !
Krsto
Well-known member
"Eternal punishment" is not a process of punishment that is eternal, it is a punishment that has an eternal consequence: death. Death, and cessation of the soul, is an eternal punishment. It will not be reversed. The wages of sin is death. Sorry for your confusion.
Krsto
Well-known member
Don't worry. I wasn't listening to you.
genuineoriginal
New member
Are you comparing God to the lake of fire?
Yes.
God is the consuming fire. There is none other from whom all things have come.
Do you think God made a hell/lake of fire somewhere else?
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
LA
dodge
New member
genuineoriginal
New member
Your belief is that death and hell were cast into God, and this is the second death?
Your belief is that everyone not found in the book of life is cast into God?
In your scenario, the wicked become one with God.
What happened to being separated from God?
Isaiah 59:2 2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. |
When satan and the wicked are consumed by God, then that does not mean they are alive with God.
Satan was a liar from the beginning but that does not mean, God out of whom satan came, was part a liar.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him (the Father) all things consist.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Exo 15:6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.
Exo 15:7 And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble.
LA
KingdomRose
New member
What SEEM to support ECT are presumptuous, sloppy renderings of the original Hebrew and Greek that the Bible was written in. For example:
Jesus says, at Matthew 5:22, in the King James Version: "I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause, shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
The word translated "hell fire" is GEHENNA. It should have been left as GEHENNA. It is confused with another Greek word, HADES. Both are translated as "hell" or "hell fire." But GEHENNA and HADES are not the same thing. I won't go into that right now. I want to make the point that the 7 times Jesus uses the word "Gehenna" in Matthew, he is referring to the flaming garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where trash and bodies of criminals were thrown to burn up. The idea was that those items were OBLITERATED....nothing was left of them. So, what seems to be a teaching of ECT to a majority of those in Christendom, is actually a teaching of absolute annihilation, not ECT. The same can be said of Matthew 25:41 where Jesus speaks of the "fire" prepared for the demons. That is understood to be metaphorical; "fire" is symbolic for complete obliteration. But most churches see that as further proof that Jesus taught ETC.
The Lake of Fire in Revelation is also pointed to as proof of ECT. Again, it must be understood to SYMBOLIZE complete obliteration. Indeed, "death" is said to be thrown into the lake of fire. That cannot be literal, can it? It means that death will be no more. Completely gone. The same with everything else that is thrown into the lake of fire.
So, what does the Bible really say about what happens to the wicked?
1) "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not PERISH, but have eternal life." (John 3:16, NASB)
2) "These [the wicked] will pay the penalty of eternal DESTRUCTION." (2 Thessalonians 1:9, NASB)
3) "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in DEATH, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?" (Romans 6:16, NASB)
4) "The wages of sin is DEATH." (Romans 6:23, NASB)
5) "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to PERISH but for all to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9, NASB)
6) "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to DESTRUCTION, and there are many who enter through it." (Matthew 7:13)
7) "For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is DESTRUCTION, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things." (Philippians 3:18,19)
8) "But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and DESTRUCTION of ungodly men." (2 Peter 3:7)
9) "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are PERISHING..." (I Corinthians 1:18)
I could go on. But I think the point is made. "Perish," "Death," "Destruction".....these words mean just what we commonly think they mean. There is no hint of life continuing on some other plane; "death" means the opposite of being alive. When something is destroyed, it no longer exists.
:granite::burnlib: Annihilation. Gone. No longer alive.
re: "Annihilation. Gone. No longer alive."
But in spite of the fact that there is no scripture that says that anyone - with the possible exception of the devil as the KJV has it - will be given eternal life and tortured for eternity, there are some that for some macabre reason want the unsaved to be tortured 24/7 without end. .
But in spite of the fact that there is no scripture that says that anyone - with the possible exception of the devil as the KJV has it - will be given eternal life and tortured for eternity, there are some that for some macabre reason want the unsaved to be tortured 24/7 without end. .
genuineoriginal
New member
God does not swallow evil, He vomits it out.
