Hey, Crucible, for goodness sake take some lessons relating to Wit and Humor. I'm afraid you weren't born with either, and need some coaching.
Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored
- Thread starter SimpleMan77
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Post #158 might be helpful to you Crucible. Maybe, give you some insight on where you went wrong?
One last thought for the evening Crucible. "If I was as smart as you aren't, I wouldn't be trying to teach others, anything. Just a thought."
One last thought for the evening Crucible. "If I was as smart as you aren't, I wouldn't be trying to teach others, anything. Just a thought."
:up:
I'd agree that you are certainly saved. I'd say, however, that the biggest danger, at least for you personally, is the incredible waste of time and energy you are expending in the practice of various false doctrines. For me, the biggest danger is that I should be expending that time and energy.
Your comment here does, however, shed some light on just how steep a climb it would be in an attempt to overcome your paradigm. You believe that you have personal, first-hand, experiential knowledge of the truth of your doctrine (i.e. speaking in tongues and I'm sure other charismatic experiences). These sort of experiences, whether real or imagined, are all but impossible to overcome. In fact, if my reading between the lines of your post has been accurate, the fact that you're even here and are even capable of engaging the debate on this level makes you something of a rare bird indeed. There is a very large and quite influential segment of the charismatic segment of the Christian church that is decidedly anti-intellectual to the point of teaching that intellectual challenges to doctrine are contrary to faith and even demonic. Most charismatic believers are all about just believing things and the less they "make sense" the more opportunity there is for what they call faith. I commend you for not being in that crowd.
Well, this is one of those wastes of time and energy I was referring to. All such works will be burned up.
Notice the implied motivation here. Fear!
It is the law that brings the fear of death. This is how I KNOW that your doctrine is false. I have already died, in Him. The law has been taken out of the way, having been nailed to the cross and I with it. It is no longer I who lives but Christ lives His life through me by faith. This is Paul's gospel. Whether you know it or not, you are attempting to live as a Messianic Jew and I think the loss you will suffer is much more than you suspect. Making heaven is one thing and an incredible blessing to be sure but my bet is that the rewards God gives aren't trivial in the least and that in fact they are really really important and special and eternally amazing and it will suck to miss out on them - a lot!
So, at bottom, we are in agreement that this is no trivial matter that we are discussing. We can continue in any direction you wish. I saw your other post about how one of your posts got messed up. Don't worry about trying to answer all those questions I listed. I only listed them to point out how far reaching and parsimonious this single idea is.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Great post Clete.
SimpleMan77
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SimpleMan77
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SimpleMan77
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[MENTION=13925]Grosnick Marowbe[/MENTION] hypothetically a career thief hears that Jesus died for him, and fully believes, embracing God's forgiveness (the righteousness of Jesus is now applied to his life).
He comes to you and says "I've believed, now what?"
What do you say?
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He comes to you and says "I've believed, now what?"
What do you say?
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SimpleMan77
New member
[MENTION=3698]Tambora[/MENTION] I'd like to hear your answer on this also.
Hypothetically a career thief hears that Jesus died for him, and fully believes, embracing God's forgiveness (the righteousness of Jesus is now applied to his life).
He comes to you and says "I've believed, now what?"
What do you say?
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
Hypothetically a career thief hears that Jesus died for him, and fully believes, embracing God's forgiveness (the righteousness of Jesus is now applied to his life).
He comes to you and says "I've believed, now what?"
What do you say?
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
I would say HALLELUJAH!
For it does not matter if the thief stole once or many times ---- he would be just as guilty as anyone else with that ever sinned.
Thankfully he put his faith in the only spotless substitute with perfect righteousness --- Christ.
I would say let's give it at least six months to see your fruits of repentance.
I don't lay hands hastily on anyone I don't know personally.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
He comes to you and says "I've believed, now what?"
What do you say?
I say Great, now lets get on with the ministry of reconciliation.
What do you say?
I say Great, now lets get on with the ministry of reconciliation.
1) Find a Non-Denominational, Bible believing, Christ centered Church that preaches the Grace Gospel and the Doctrine of MAD if possible?
2) Do a thorough read/study of Paul's writings. "Romans through Philemon."
3) Begin a good prayer life.
4) Make it a goal to read through the entire Bible, word for word, name by name, cover to cover.
SimpleMan77
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SimpleMan77
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SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
He already knows it's wrong.
heir
TOL Subscriber
2 Timothy 2:15 KJV
Somebody who is ignorant of obvious "wrongs", most likely is a "Sociopath" and should be told to see a Therapist. The majority of humanity already knows that stealing is wrong. That's not a very good question. Why are you asking such an obvious question/answer scenario? What's your ultimate goal in doing so?
That's what I was thinking.
It is wrong, whether one is a Christian or not, and was wrong both before and after one becomes a Christian.
No new info there.
I'd first confirm that what it is he believes is the gospel, but presuming that he understands what is necessary to believe and that he does indeed profess to believe it, I'd tell him to turn himself in and attempt to make restitution for his crimes to whatever degree is possible.
After that, or presuming your hypothetical person wasn't a criminal, I'd tell him to read!
Read, read, read! A lot!
Read the book of John then the Pauline epistles. After that, read Things That Differ by C. R. Stam and/or The Plot by Bob Enyart. After that read all of Paul's epistles again while at the same time reading The Principles of Spiritual Growth by Miles J. Stanford. Then, once this solid biblical foundation has been laid, find someone to be mentored by and, if possible, a group of like-minded believers to be mentored with where a more complete biblical education can begin (much easier said than done).
Avoid anything that looks like a prosperous church, most of them are more interested in collecting 10% (minimum) than they are in anything else. Avoid the mainline denominations (United Methodists in particular) at all costs and run from any believer who tells you that God predestined everything that happens (this means to stay away from most Baptist churches and all Lutheran and Presbyterian churches and any church at all with the word "Reformed" on the sign out front). And, of course, avoid all cults like the Later Day Saints and Jehovah Witnesses.
Before joining any church, figure out whether the pastor could pass the following Pastor Qualification Quiz...
1. Does your pastor warn people to take their children out of public school?
2. Does your pastor teach people to judge?
3. Does your pastor teach that the theory of evolution is wrong and dangerous?
4. Does your pastor teach to withhold forgiveness from those who do not repent?
5. Does your pastor teach that homosexuality is evil?
6. Would your pastor disfellowship fornicating church members (living together, etc.)?
7. Does your pastor condemn abortion?
8. Has your pastor ever strongly criticized liberal politicians?
9. Does your pastor teach that some sins are worse than others?
10. Does your pastor's wife seem joyful? (single: Does he rejoice in Christ?)
Each of these questions should be answered in the affirmative.
See the grading scale HERE
2. Does your pastor teach people to judge?
3. Does your pastor teach that the theory of evolution is wrong and dangerous?
4. Does your pastor teach to withhold forgiveness from those who do not repent?
5. Does your pastor teach that homosexuality is evil?
6. Would your pastor disfellowship fornicating church members (living together, etc.)?
7. Does your pastor condemn abortion?
8. Has your pastor ever strongly criticized liberal politicians?
9. Does your pastor teach that some sins are worse than others?
10. Does your pastor's wife seem joyful? (single: Does he rejoice in Christ?)
Each of these questions should be answered in the affirmative.
See the grading scale HERE
Notice, no mention of getting baptized, making pledges to the Christian television con artists (or to anyone else), putting your hair in a bun / wearing a hat and/or facial hair, hoarding a year's worth of food in your house, eating the Lord Supper, observing the sabbath, reciting prayers or any other such thing that various Christian sects teach and practice.
Resting in Him,
Clete
P.S. The short version of this post would go something like this....
Move to Denver and start attending Denver Bible Church or Derby Bible Church.
(Caution! Most all "Bible Churches" are Calvinist! - Don't confuse the fact that these two churches are good ones with the notion that they are typical of "Bible Churches", they aren't.)
SimpleMan77
New member
Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored
What about something slightly less obvious? Say, a guy living with his girlfriend outside of marriage. In today's culture many people have never heard it's wrong.
He hears the word preached, and the preacher says "your salvation has nothing to do with your works". He believes, and one day as he is reading the Bible he reads that fornication is a sin, a work of the flesh.
He come to you and says "I see in scripture that God says fornication is a sin. I want to please Him, but I am afraid if I take steps to change my life to be obedient to God's desires I will be guilty of trying to become justified by works".
What do you tell him?
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[MENTION=3698]Tambora[/MENTION] [MENTION=7053]SaulToPaul[/MENTION] [MENTION=2492]Lighthouse[/MENTION] [MENTION=2589]Clete[/MENTION] [MENTION=6992]heir[/MENTION]
What about something slightly less obvious? Say, a guy living with his girlfriend outside of marriage. In today's culture many people have never heard it's wrong.
He hears the word preached, and the preacher says "your salvation has nothing to do with your works". He believes, and one day as he is reading the Bible he reads that fornication is a sin, a work of the flesh.
He come to you and says "I see in scripture that God says fornication is a sin. I want to please Him, but I am afraid if I take steps to change my life to be obedient to God's desires I will be guilty of trying to become justified by works".
What do you tell him?
Sent from my iPhone using TOL