The problem I have with MAD is that I see it as a doctrine born out of a desperate desire to prove that no obedience is required in order to be saved, and no amount of disobedience can amount to walking away from God (i.e. being lost).
Obedience out of fear is not obedience. You obey because you don't want to lose your salvation. Mad teaches obedience based on faith. We obey because we love Him.
Salvation comes before obedience to any of His commands. He does not expect or require obedience to anything to receive salvation. And He knows obedience will come as a result of salvation. He also knows that the carnal mind is at enmity with Him and is not subject to His law, nor can it be. [Romans 8:7]
It makes living for God a matter of thinking the thought "I believe", after which time you can live any way you wish. It totally "turns the grace of God into lasciviousness (license to sin)", but of course that scripture was written by Jude, therefore only being applicable to Jews in their view.
You are a liar.
Anyone who thinks they can live in sin is either oblivious to their being dead to sin and alive in Christ, or they are neither of those things and are still lost.
They turn any obedience to God into a "work to earn salvation" so they can convince themselves that anything that is easy on their flesh is perfectly ok, and anything that is a "living sacrifice" is poison (lest we try to earn God's grace).
Another lie.
Of course they have to also twist Paul's words because he says a lot that doesn't agree with their doctrine, but they are ok with that I guess.
Such as?
I hate to put it that bluntly, but it is the truth
No, it's a lie; from your father.
I'll add that some have been deceived honestly, but "flesh" is the underlying driver behind it.
The deceived here are you and your lot; as you are children f the deceiver.
Truly honest people will understand that we can't earn God's grace, but GRACE, according to Paul, teaches and enables us to "deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, and live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world".
If we can't earn it how can we lose it?
Yes, that is the power of grace. And that is why we obey, not out of fear for our salvation.
Obedience in light of grace is Paul's way of putting it. Romans 12:1-2. Grace renews our minds, and teaches us how to prove what is the good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God. The chapters following tell us how to prove that by "keeping our flesh in subjection". Paul said that even he would be a castaway if he didn't keep his flesh under the rule of the Spirit of Holiness.
While we should keep our flesh under control, and only by grace can that even be done, where and when does Paul say he would be cast away if he did not?
John could not baptize with the Holy Spirit, only Jesus can.
I know this. What's your point?
1. To make eternal security be true, you have to throw out huge portions of the Bible. Paul, for one, said that if he did not "keep under his body" that he would be a castaway. He also said that the flesh and Spirit are at enmity one with another, and the only ones who are the sons of God are those who will follow the Spirit of God.
Where did Paul say he would be a castaway?
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
-1 Corinthians 5:50
The flesh isn't going to Heaven, no matter what. The flesh isn't what is saved.
Again your argument fails.
2. So you are saying that we have to wait until we get to the end of our lives to see if we leave God before we can say for sure if we ever knew Him and He knew us. That is making our eternity and saved status completely conditional on what our choices prove out.
No, that is not what I said.
And even if it had been the logic bears out that our salvation would not be conditional upon our choices, only that we would not know if we're saved until we either walk away or die. But even if that were the case, which it is not, God would know whether or not we are saved.
The Bible tells us that we can know now, though. But it also tells us there are those who are deceived; thinking they are saved when they are not.
3. If saved status happens as soon as you receive the Holy Ghost and start speaking in tongues, and then there is absolutely no obedience required, why did Paul talk about us being a living sacrifice in Romans 12:1, followed by two chapters full of works for us to do?
Not everyone speaks in tongues.
Just because obedience is not required for salvation doesn't make it a bad thing. Even those who are atheists can recognize theft, adultery, murder, etc. as wicked/evil. Maybe not all of them can recognize that, but for the most part... Of course, not all so-called Christians can either.
Then where is it?
5. Actually Jesus told Peter that whatever he bound on earth would be bound in heaven. He spent 3 1/2 years living with Jesus, so I am pretty sure that he knew exactly what Jesus wanted him to command.
hat doesn't answer the question. Where does Peter command anything?
Where is my evidence? In 1 Cor 5:11 Paul says he is "called a brother". There are quite a few other bits of evidence also, but I will leave it at that because it is so plain.
[Jesus]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”[/Jesus]
-Matthew 7:21
Paul said that fornicators could not inherit the kingdom of God. He reminded them that they had once been that way, but that God had changed them. Going back to their old sinful ways = going back to their old, unsaved condition.
How does that logically follow? Especially in light of Romans 6-8...
He simply, unequivocally stated that those who live unrighteously in sin shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Actually he said that those who were those things would not inherit the kingdom of God. He then said that those who were in Christ were not those things, even if they had been before. Romans 8:1 speaks to this as well.
Paul clearly states that the instruction he received from Christ he gave to the Corinthians. So, Paul, as a direct instruction from Christ, told the Corinthians to drink of the cup of the New Covenant.
No he didn't. He quoted what Jesus said to the 12 the night of the Last Supper. And then said we should eat and drink in remembrance of His sacrifice until He comes again.
In other words, we should do this over and over again. If this were partaking in the NC why would he tell us to do it repeatedly? Is once not enough?
Did any of the 12 whose writings we have in the Bible say to do the same thing?
And if you think drinking from the cup of the new Covenant isn't embracing that covenant, then you're beyond help.
Recognition isn't partaking.
