Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored

[SimpleMan77]

No.

Are the land prophecies in Ezekiel literal, or figurative like the prophecy of the river?


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[jamie]

Ps 8:4-6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(8:4) What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? (8:5) For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. (8:6) Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all [things] under his feet: ​

​

Heb 2:6-8 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:6) But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? (2:7) Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: (2:8) Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing [that is] not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. ​

Does it confuse you that the Psalms are in the Hebrew Bible and were therefore written to and for the Hebrew people? If I understand correctly the Psalms and the treatise to the Hebrews are not for MAD enthusiasts. This means this information is not to you or for you.

What we see is that Hebrews will have authority over the earth, the heavens and the universe.

I'm amazed that MAD people would want to go to heaven and be subject to the Hebrews.

Please explain. :idunno:

 

[Right Divider]

Does it confuse you that the Psalms are in the Hebrew Bible and were therefore written to and for the Hebrew people? If I understand correctly the Psalms and the treatise to the Hebrews are not for MAD enthusiasts. This means this information is not to you or for you.

What we see is that Hebrews will have authority over the earth, the heavens and the universe.

I'm amazed that MAD people would want to go to heaven and be subject to the Hebrews.

Please explain. :idunno:

Where do you get your crazy ideas?

The LORD Jesus Christ will control BOTH His kingdom on the earth and His body in heaven.

1Cor 6:3 (AKJV/PCE)​

(6:3) Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
​

Israel will NOT be judging angels.

 

[jamie]

Israel will NOT be judging angels.

Israel is the body of Christ, the church of God as Paul called it.

 

[john w]

Israel is the body of Christ, the church of God as Paul called it.

Made up. Amongst hundreds...


Romans 11 KJV

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,.....


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



Jamie's Romans 11

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? He has, although I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath(not omitted) cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,.....


25 For I would not, brethren,members of the body of Christ, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel,which is you, members of the body of Christ, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel, which is you, members of the body of Christ, shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob, members of the body of Christ:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, members of the body of Christ, when I shall take away their sins.


Jamie: Members of the body of Christ are blind, and are waiting for their sins to be taken away, not saved, per his interpretation that Israel=the body of Christ, or Paul was on pot.


Ssssssssssssssss.............

 

[Zeke]

Weird Paul states in Roman some were in Christ before him Romans 16:7 yet reminds everyone later that there is No Jew or Gentile in Christ Galatians 3:28,, and the little remark in Acts 28 about preaching none other than the hope of the Body of Christ or IS RA EL Acts 28:20, Even Isaiah predicted Paul's ministry Isaiah 35:5, 42:7, Act 26:18.

 

[Right Divider]

Israel is the body of Christ, the church of God as Paul called it.

Wrong as wrong can be.

 

[jamie]

Wrong as wrong can be.

Everyone has opinions.

 

[Right Divider]

Everyone has opinions.

And some are better than others.

 

[themuzicman]

I disagree

That's obvious, but you're disagreeing with the obvious.

How is it different?[/quote

The New Covenant Law is found in 1 John 3:23.

Indeed, it is entirely different.

The Bible also CLEARLY tells us that BOTH covenants are between God and Israel.

Jer 31:31-33 (AKJV/PCE)​

(31:31) ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (31:33) But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. ​

But the fact that it was with Israel doesn't exclude the possibility of Gentiles joining in, as Paul states in Romans 9.

Hebrews is thoroughly HEBREW. Does this cancel Jeremiah 31?

No, in fact, it affirms Jeremiah 31, as there is a law written on our hearts. It just isn't the Old Covenant Law.

The prophets of Israel explain it all very clearly.

Ezek 36:24-28 (AKJV/PCE)​

(36:24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. (36:25) ¶ Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. (36:26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. (36:27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. (36:28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

​

Ezek 37:21-24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(37:21) And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: (37:22) And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: (37:23) Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. (37:24) And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.​

OK, you're confusing prophecies about Israel's return from exile (basically ALL of Ezekiel) with the New Covenant.

Those broken off were not ALL of the Jews. Gentiles were always allowed to join with Israel, even since the very day God brought them out of Egypt.

Exod 12:43-51 (AKJV/PCE)​

(12:43) ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This [is] the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof: (12:44) But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof. (12:45) A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof. (12:46) In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof. (12:47) All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. (12:48) And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. (12:49) One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. (12:50) Thus did all the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they. (12:51) And it came to pass the selfsame day, [that] the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies. ​

But Paul isn't writing to Gentiles who live under the Old Covenant in Romans. He's writing to Gentiles who are saved.

Believe whatever you want.

I'll believe what's supported in Scripture.

 

[themuzicman]

Are you sure?

Yes.

Ritual? Is this a cult?

Ritual

:duh:

Got caught on that one, didn't you...

A covenant for Israel; we are not Israel.

But, in a God-like twist, Gentiles join in the glory prepared for the remnant of Jews in receiving eternal life (Romans 9:22-24)

 

[Right Divider]

That's obvious, but you're disagreeing with the obvious.

You call it obvious; I call that contrived.

How is it different?

Indeed, it is entirely different.
The New Covenant Law is found in 1 John 3:23.

Firstly, that is one of the twelve apostles that will judge the twelve tribes of Israel writing a message to his people.
Secondly, that is again contrived. It does NOT say that this the new covenant.

So loving one another is NEW?

Lev 19:18 (AKJV/PCE)​

(19:18) ¶ Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.
​

Loving your neighbor was in the LAW. It's not something new.

But the fact that it was with Israel doesn't exclude the possibility of Gentiles joining in, as Paul states in Romans 9.

As I've shown on numerous occasions (including the post that you replied to), that gentiles joining with Israel was NOT something new either. It's written as far back as their exodus from Egypt.

No, in fact, it affirms Jeremiah 31, as there is a law written on our hearts. It just isn't the Old Covenant Law.

OUR and WE.... so many are trying to make themselves part of a group that they don't actually belong to.

OK, you're confusing prophecies about Israel's return from exile (basically ALL of Ezekiel) with the New Covenant.

You could NOT possibly be more wrong.

At the time Jesus walked the earth, they were STILL two divided nations.

But Paul isn't writing to Gentiles who live under the Old Covenant in Romans. He's writing to Gentiles who are saved.

Paul says that in the body of Christ there is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek, etc. etc.

The body of Christ is NOT about gentiles joining Israel. It is a NEW CREATURE.

I'll believe what's supported in Scripture.

Sure you will.

 

[themuzicman]

You call it obvious; I call that contrived.

Drinking from a cup of (symbolic) blood doesn't indicate participation to you? You really need to study some history.

Firstly, that is one of the twelve apostles that will judge the twelve tribes of Israel writing a message to his people.
Secondly, that is again contrived. It does NOT say that this the new covenant.

Really? John wasn't part of the New Covenant? Jesus didn't initiate the new Covenant?

So loving one another is NEW?

Lev 19:18 (AKJV/PCE)​

(19:18) ¶ Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.
​

Loving your neighbor was in the LAW. It's not something new.

It is new in that it doesn't come with the 613 commandments of the Old Covenant.

As I've shown on numerous occasions (including the post that you replied to), that gentiles joining with Israel was NOT something new either. It's written as far back as their exodus from Egypt.

So, you acknowledge that Gentiles can join the Jews, but somehow the Gentiles cannot join the Jews in the New Covenant.

Got it.

OUR and WE.... so many are trying to make themselves part of a group that they don't actually belong to.

Except that Paul says that we are part of that group, again, Romans 9:22-24

You could NOT possibly be more wrong

Show me where the New Covenant is associated with land. (Hint: it's not)
Show me where Ezekiel says anything about the new covenant (Hint: it isn't there.)

At the time Jesus walked the earth, they were STILL two divided nations.

There hadn't been divided nations since the exile. Study some history.

Paul says that in the body of Christ there is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek, etc. etc.

Because we all join in the same covenant. The distinction is meaningless.

Interesting that you retain that distinction when Paul says that there isn't one.

The body of Christ is NOT about gentiles joining Israel. It is a NEW CREATURE.

False dichotomy.

 

[Right Divider]

Drinking from a cup of (symbolic) blood doesn't indicate participation to you? You really need to study some history.

That's NOT how Paul explains it. You're trying to be an Israelite.

You need to read all of his epistles to understand them, not just the selected portions that seem to support your version of it.

1Cor 10:16-17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(10:16) The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? (10:17) For we [being] many are one bread, [and] one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.​

We are partakers of the one bread and that is the LORD Jesus Christ. We do not need to have a covenant relationship. You, like many, have a self-made identity crisis.

Really? John wasn't part of the New Covenant? Jesus didn't initiate the new Covenant?

Jesus shed His blood for both Israel's new covenant and for His body that is not covenant related.

It is new in that it doesn't come with the 613 commandments of the Old Covenant.

I just showed you that it DID come from the old covenant. Please read my posts before you reply.

Lev 19:18 (AKJV/PCE)​

(19:18) ¶ Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.
​

Apparently you know the number of laws, but not what they are.

So, you acknowledge that Gentiles can join the Jews, but somehow the Gentiles cannot join the Jews in the New Covenant.

Got it.

False accusation, thanks.

Gentiles could always join with Israel. That's what the Bible says.

In the body of Christ there is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek, NEITHER male NOR female, etc. etc. etc.

Is it hard for you to see that THIS is something DIFFERENT?

Except that Paul says that we are part of that group, again, Romans 9:22-24

No, he does not.

Romans 9-11 is ALL about Israel and God's dealing with them. There is NO information about the NEW CREATURE which is the ONE NEW MAN.

Show me where the New Covenant is associated with land. (Hint: it's not)
Show me where Ezekiel says anything about the new covenant (Hint: it isn't there.)

Israel is associated with the land that God promised THEM.

I guess that the NEW heart and the NEW spirit is hard for you to follow.

There hadn't been divided nations since the exile. Study some history.

Interesting theory. Wrong, but interesting.

Because we all join in the same covenant. The distinction is meaningless.

You're obsessed with covenants.

Paul never makes any such application for us, His body.

Notice when Paul give this lengthy history lesson...:

Eph 2:11-22 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:11) Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (2:12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (2:13) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. (2:14) For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; (2:15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace; (2:16) And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (2:17) And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. (2:18) For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. (2:19) Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; (2:20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; (2:21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (2:22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. ​

NOTE that Paul says that we are both reconciled together BY THE CROSS and not a covenant. We are made nigh BY THE BLOOD and not the covenant (that doesn't belong to us anyway).

Interesting that you retain that distinction when Paul says that there isn't one.

False dichotomy.

Nope and nope.

 

[Lighthouse]

And Gentiles have no covenant with God apart from Israel.

View attachment 24963

So close, and yet so far...

And we, the body of Christ, are saved by grace through faith without the need of a covenant. We are complete in Him.

You need to learn about the revelation of the mystery. Unfortunately, it seems that you've not yet discovered it.

:thumb:

Yes.

Then verify it for us.

Ritual

You're not helping your case.

Got caught on that one, didn't you...

:AMR:

This is why I called you a joke before.

But, in a God-like twist, Gentiles join in the glory prepared for the remnant of Jews in receiving eternal life (Romans 9:22-24)

Provoking Israel to jealousy. Wait, that doesn't make sense...

 

[jamie]

In the body of Christ there is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek, NEITHER male NOR female, etc. etc. etc.

The preceding verse says that applies to those baptized into Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

The preceding verse says that applies to those baptized into Christ.

And?

WE, the body of Christ, are baptized BY one Spirit INTO one body.

1Cor 12:12-14 (AKJV/PCE)​

(12:12) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ. (12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (12:14) For the body is not one member, but many.
​

Why does Paul always forget to tell us that we need Israel for this?

 

[jamie]

WE, the body of Christ, are baptized BY one Spirit INTO one body.

As was the Father's firstborn son.

 

[Right Divider]

As was the Father's firstborn son.

Did Paul tell you that?
Where do you read this?

 

[jamie]

NOTE that Paul says that we are both reconciled together BY THE CROSS and not a covenant. We are made nigh BY THE BLOOD and not the covenant (that doesn't belong to us anyway).

In Galatians 4:22-26 Paul said, "For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic.

For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar — for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children, but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all."

Two mothers, one covenant based on Mt. Sinai covenant the other covenant based on faith.