Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored

Angel4Truth

Angel4Truth

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musterion said:
If someone believes something that contradicts itself, there's a few options.

a) They know there's a contradiction but don't care b/c they don't actually believe any of it. They're just a troll.
b) They may or may not realize there's a contradiction but are under threat of damnation for questioning whatever they've believed, so they shut it out.
c) They come to realize there's a contradiction and start to think it through.

He's either a or b. I find (a) more likely.
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Well i hope he becomes a c, instead of being in bondage he could be free from.

It would not be very good news to wonder if i 'walked away' from God and took salvation off the table because of my weak flesh and then wondered which sin it would take and how many times to have rendered me unsaved and then not be able to be saved again, for putting Him to open shame, and my my how could i even sleep thinking i had to keep what i didn't earn to start with...
 
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SimpleMan77

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Lighthouse said:
What passage of Scripture?


Faith in humanity? Put down the bong. I never even implied such a thing. And I certainly never implied universal salvation.


Your faith never wavers or wanes? Ever?


If you reject it after having accepted it you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

And if you think Jesus would ever let you go, you're completely ignorant of the gospel of the grace of God.
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Here's the scripture that says the only faith that avails is "faith which WORKETH by love".

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

You're the one that said the faith that saves us isn't our own faith. I take that to mean that you feel God's faith in us is what saves us.

Read 1 Corinthians 5. A member of the church fell into terrible sin - fornication with his "father's wife". Paul let's us know this individual was no longer saved, and instructed the church to use their authority to turn this person over to Satan so that Satan could destroy his body. The whole reason was so this PREVIOUSLY SAVED saint could be SAVED AGAIN.

1 Corinthians 5:4-5
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I guess someone should have explained eternal security to Paul.


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SimpleMan77

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Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored

jamie said:
That can't happen, God's a step ahead of you.
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[MENTION=13987]Angel4Truth[/MENTION]

If I believed as a young man, then grew bitter and decided I hated God and everything He stood for, would God abduct me against my will, and force me to spend eternity with Him?


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jamie

jamie

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SimpleMan77 said:
If I believed as a young man, then grew bitter and decided I hated God and everything He stood for, would God abduct me against my will, and force me to spend eternity with Him?
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No, Christ would raise you up in the second resurrection and we would find out what the reason was for your bitterness.

Then you could choose life through Christ or you could choose death. It would be your choice and yours alone.

But we would be there to help you and to encourage you. Life is good.
 
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SimpleMan77

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jamie said:
No, Christ would raise you up in the second resurrection and we would find out what the reason was for your bitterness.

Then you could choose life through Christ or you could choose death. It would be your choice and yours alone.

But we would be there to help you and to encourage you. Life is good.
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But I could choose to refuse Him?


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Grosnick Marowbe

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SimpleMan77 said:
And it wouldn't matter that I had believed as a younger man, correct? I'm free to change my mind and He will let me?


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If you wait until after you're dead, it'll be too late to accept the Grace Gospel, therefore, you will stand before God the Father and be judged by your works, then, cast into the Lake of Fire for eternity. Then again, it's all up to you to believe whatever you want.
 
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SimpleMan77

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
If you wait until after you're dead, it'll be too late to accept the Grace Gospel, therefore, you will stand before God the Father and be judged by your works, then, cast into the Lake of Fire for eternity. Then again, it's all up to you to believe whatever you want.
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I didn't think it sounded right...

So you're saying that even if I believed when I was younger, but changed my mind when I got older and decided that I hated Him and didn't want to be around Him for eternity, that he wouldn't take me to heaven against my will?

It would be bad to be taken somewhere that I hated to go.


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Grosnick Marowbe

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SimpleMan77 said:
I didn't think it sounded right...

So you're saying that even if I believed when I was younger, but changed my mind when I got older and decided that I hated Him and didn't want to be around Him for eternity, that he wouldn't take me to heaven against my will?

It would be bad to be taken somewhere that I hated to go.


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Well, looking at that scenario, you can only come to one conclusion. The person who says they believed when they were young then, changed their mind later in life wasn't actually saved at any point in their life. Faith isn't like a faucet that you turn on and off in this kind of situation.
 
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SimpleMan77

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
Well, looking at that scenario, you can only come to one conclusion. The person who says they believed when they were young then, changed their mind later in life wasn't actually saved at any point in their life. Faith isn't like a faucet that you turn on and off in this kind of situation.
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So anybody who ends up deciding that they don't want anything to do with Jesus never really had faith?

So I guess you'd say the only way we can know if we or anyone is saved is to wait until the end of our lives, and see if they ever turn their back on Jesus?

Those who turn back never had faith.

Those who don't turn back had true faith.

Is that a fair summary of your beliefs?


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Grosnick Marowbe

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SimpleMan77 said:
So anybody who ends up deciding that they don't want anything to do with Jesus never really had faith?

So I guess you'd say the only way we can know if we or anyone is saved is to wait until the end of our lives, and see if they ever turn their back on Jesus?

Those who turn back never had faith.

Those who don't turn back had true faith.

Is that a fair summary of your beliefs?


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Romans 10:17 states: "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." If one, such as yourself is seeking saving faith, you'll find it in the Grace Gospel, preached by the Apostle Paul. Once you hear the Gospel preached (You may hear it several times) you have the ability to accept it or reject it. Where you desire to place your faith is up to you.
 
heir

heir

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SimpleMan77 said:
So anybody who ends up deciding that they don't want anything to do with Jesus never really had faith?

So I guess you'd say the only way we can know if we or anyone is saved is to wait until the end of our lives, and see if they ever turn their back on Jesus?

Those who turn back never had faith.

Those who don't turn back had true faith.

Is that a fair summary of your beliefs?


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People have been departing the faith for some time.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

It stands to reason that those who departed the faith, had it before, but left it.

This is not to say that they are no longer saved, as the apostle Paul preached that those who have trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) are saved and sealed (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV).
 
jamie

jamie

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SimpleMan77 said:
And it wouldn't matter that I had believed as a younger man, correct? I'm free to change my mind and He will let me?
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In Isaiah 65:20 NET it is written: "Never again will one of her infants live just a few days or an old man die before his time. Indeed, no one will die before the age of a hundred, anyone who fails to reach the age of a hundred will be considered cursed."

Christ became a curse for us. If a person doesn't accept the love of Jesus Christ that person is forever gone.

There is no other way.
 
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SimpleMan77

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heir said:
People have been departing the faith for some time.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

It stands to reason that those who departed the faith, had it before, but left it.

This is not to say that they are no longer saved, as the apostle Paul preached that those who have trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) are saved and sealed (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV).
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Why did Paul say that the Corinthian Christian who had started fornicating in 1 Cor 5 needed to repent so he could be "saved", using that very word?

1 Corinthians 5:3-5
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


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SimpleMan77

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
SM77, nobody can force you to believe something you don't want to believe. It's you alone who must answer for your decision, either way.
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But I can choose to spend eternity without God if I choose, even if I previously had faith and was saved?

Obviously the answer is yes. God will not take someone to heaven against their will.

If someone decides they want to continue until their death fornicating with their father's wife, God will do everything He can to get them to turn back to Him, outside of overriding their free-will.

Ultimately, though, if that person chooses sin over righteousness, God let's them remain unsaved by their own choice. Paul said some things needed to happen for this fornicator to be saved.

Those things happened when the man repented, as told by the book of 2 Corinthians, at which point he was forgiven by the church, by Paul, and Paul said he forgave the man in "the person of Christ". That was in keeping with Jesus' teachings when He said "whoever sins you remit, I'll remit".


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