SaulToPaul 2
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:chuckle:
Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored
- Thread starter SimpleMan77
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:chuckle:
SaulToPaul 2
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Originally Posted by SimpleMan77 View Post
You must take the Bible as a whole, and scripture must be interpreted by scripture.
How do you know it's ok for you to eat pork?
Many of us used to believe that, though. It's what many churches teach today; because they mix grace and law and are confused between the two.
This says nothing about saving faith; or even justification.
Because, like a dunce, you assume. We are saved by the faith of the Son of God, but that faith is not His faith in us.
You're assuming this person was saved before this incident. You're also assuming he lost his salvation, if he was saved prior to this. It's an argument from silence. You really shouldn't make such arguments.
Speaking of arguments from silence... and assumptions...
This passage does not state that we partaking in the New Covenant. It only tells us to participate in the remembrance of what Christ did for us.
If you believed when you were young but changed your mind when you grew up then you may have believed, but you did not know. And you had no faith. You were a goat among the sheep.
Zeke
Well-known member
Matt 15:11, yum yum.
As evidence in Acts 10 Peter did not think this meant what you think it did. Try again.
themuzicman
Well-known member
If you drink from the cup, you are embracing the New Covenant. No way around that, here.
Zeke
Well-known member
Just like Luke 17:20-21 doesn't mean the kingdom is in man, or Matt 11:11 shows Jesus was born from above, or Galatians 4:24 makes all that secular/historical religious milk doctrine sour, Acts 17:24, Gen 32:30, 1Cor 3:16, are spirit/meat of the kingdom in man a light that you only play in its shadow.
SimpleMan77
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I posted this in another thread on the same subject. Why does it bother me when people claim to be knowledgeable on biblical topics, then make outlandish claims, implying that things that are so easy to see aren't in the Bible?
Obviously they're trying to fool themselves or someone who may not take the time to read what's being discussed.
You want biblical verse - here you are:
1 Corinthians 5:1
It is reported commonly that there is fornication AMONG YOU, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
Verse 5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Verses 11-13
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if ANY MAN THAT IS CALLED A BROTHER be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge THEM THAT ARE WITHIN? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Next epistle, referencing the above situation, which was the only situation he dealt with in that manner:
2 Corinthians 2:4-11
For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.
But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all. Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him. For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things. To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
So here he exhorts them to forgive the man, and says that he, Paul, forgives him also "in the person of Christ".
The punishment was so "a person within" could "be saved". That "within" means "saved" is validated by saying that he wasn't telling them to treat sinner-fornicators this way, only saint-fornicators.
In 2 Cor forgiveness was given by the church, by Paul, and by "Paul in the person of Christ" once repentance happened.
That is spelled out in third grade English
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Another lie repeated ad nauseum.
Please stop lying and learn the truth.
http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?3489-They-were-NOT-quot-rebaptized-quot-in-Acts-19
SimpleMan77
New member
Sorry, but the word baptize (baptizo) had a very specific meaning, and it was used how we would use the phrase "submersion under water". It was a common term, not only for baptism, but for bathing and cleaning.
The Jews "baptized" their pots and cups. They "baptized" their hands before eating. That didn't mean the Spirit of God touched them. It was water.
I'll use the definition in the place of the word, and see if you can make it make sense to you outside of water baptism:
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were submerged under the water in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
If the Bible uses that to liken our immersion in the things of Holy Ghost, so be it. But the word in 19:5 only refers to water.
That's why it says that afterward Paul laid his hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost.
The only person who would not see the identical similarity to Peter's message in Acts 2:38 is someone who is hell-bent on trying to pit Paul against Peter. They approached conversion the exact same way.
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That's not what the Bible says.
In John 3:5 NET Jesus answered, "I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
So how is a person born of water?
The person being baptized is buried in a symbolic watery grave and then resurrected to begin a new life with Christ.
This resurrection from a symbolic death pictures our resurrection from literal death.
Only those born of water will be born of the Spirit.
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Read what I HIGHLIGHTED... then follow the link to see the simple explanation for this event.
Paul did NOT re-baptize anyone.
As with most religionists, you cannot hear "baptize" without also hearing "water".
Matt 20:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.
How much water do you find in those two verses? (Hint: none).
Since you didn't follow to the link to the actual, factual explanation, I'll post it here:
Acts 19:4-6 (AKJV/PCE)
(19:4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. (19:5) When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (19:6) And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
What Paul told THEM is in YELLOW. The THEY in verse 5 refers to "the people" that heard John. What THEY with Paul did that day comes after the AND in verse 6.
You simply cannot hear what scripture says; because your prefer your story.
SimpleMan77
New member
I didn't respond to what you claimed in the link, but that is simply twisting the grammatical structure of Acts 19:4-6.
Why did Paul think baptism was so important that he had the Gentile Philippian Jailer be baptized in the middle of the night? Could it be that his "believe on The Lord" statement required obedience to be true belief?
Why did Paul have the Corinthians to be baptized in Acts 18 (although he, like Jesus, had his helpers actually do the baptizing)?
No, a simple understanding of grammar says they were baptized in Jesus name and then received the Holy Ghost.
Just like Peter instructed the Jews to do in Acts 2
Just like Philip and the Apostles instructed for the Samaritans (mixed-breed Jews) in Acts 8
Just like Peter instructed the Gentiles to do in Acts 10
Same salvation message, all the way through Acts.
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SimpleMan77
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Read what I HIGHLIGHTED... then follow the link to see the simple explanation for this event.
Paul did NOT re-baptize anyone.
As with most religionists, you cannot hear "baptize" without also hearing "water".Matt 20:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)(20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.
How much water do you find in those two verses? (Hint: none).
Since you didn't follow to the link to the actual, factual explanation, I'll post it here:
Acts 19:4-6 (AKJV/PCE)
(19:4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. (19:5) When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (19:6) And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
What Paul told THEM is in YELLOW. The THEY in verse 5 refers to "the people" that heard John. What THEY with Paul did that day comes after the AND in verse 6.
You simply cannot hear what scripture says; because your prefer your story.
2-part answer. See my last post.
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So what does the Bible say?
Act 19:4 And Paul said, `John, indeed, did baptize with a baptism of reformation, saying to the people that in him who is coming after him they should believe--that is, in the Christ--Jesus;'
Act 19:5 and they, having heard, were baptized--to the name of the Lord Jesus,
- Young's Literal Translation
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It's far better to stick with vague generalities. That way you can just keep moving the target like the shifting sands in the desert.