Is John 3:7 for today ?

[Derf]

Nope... you poor confused soul.

That's NOT what the scripture says.

Read it AGAIN:

Gal 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:9) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. ​

​

The "heathen" includes unbelieving Jews.

No it doesn't. From BLB.org: The KJV translates Strong's G1484 in the following manner: Gentiles (93x), nation (64x), heathen (5x), people (2x). The contrast is between "heathen" and "circumcision". Unless you are suggesting that all of those Jews going to synagogues Paul preached at were uncircumcised, which is ridiculous on its face.

Sometimes Paul went to synagogues and preached to UNBELIEVING Jews.

So you're now saying that there were absolutely NO believing Jews in any of the synagogues Paul preached in? This gets weirder and weirder.

Supra

Nope.

There were Jews and Gentiles in every place on earth.

Yes, and Paul preached everywhere he went to both Jews and Gentiles. And you want me to believe that all of those "Jews" in all of those Gentile nations where Paul preached were both "unbelievers" (i.e., they did not believe in the Mosaic law) and uncircumcised. That's the definition of a Gentile, I agree. But it isn't in any way the definition of a "Jew". Yet Paul preached to Jews:
[Act 13:5 KJV] And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to [their] minister.

 

[Right Divider]

No it doesn't. From BLB.org: The KJV translates Strong's G1484 in the following manner: Gentiles (93x), nation (64x), heathen (5x), people (2x). The contrast is between "heathen" and "circumcision". Unless you are suggesting that all of those Jews going to synagogues Paul preached at were uncircumcised, which is ridiculous on its face.

Unbelieving Jews are considered uncircumcised.

Acts 7:51 (AKJV/PCE)​

(7:51) ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.​

So you're now saying that there were absolutely NO believing Jews in any of the synagogues Paul preached in? This gets weirder and weirder.

Paul was not trying to convert believers into believers.

 

[Bright Raven]

Why does Paul never mention this?

I stand corrected. Thank You!

 

[glorydaz]

That always sounds great. What if you say one thing and I say another and we both claim that the Holy Spirit is leading us?

Like what?

No argument there.

What if the Word is not telling YOU that YOU need to be "born again"?

Have you never noticed that the phrase "born again" only appears in John and 1 Peter?

If that were a doctrine for the Body of Christ, don't you think that Paul would say so?

Jesus said:

John 3:7 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.​

​

THEE is SINGULAR, but YE is PLURAL. Perhaps Churchianity has been wrong about this, like it is about so many things.

Question - A thought just occurred to me. Is it possible Jesus was speaking firstly of how He was God and had the power to heal. Perhaps this is like a parable that He assumes will go over this Pharisee’s head. Here’s the deal…..I AM God. He seems to be holding out the promise of a future spiritual realm or way of being born of the Spirit.

 

[Right Divider]

Question - A thought just occurred to me. Is it possible Jesus was speaking firstly of how He was God and had the power to heal. Perhaps this is like a parable that He assumes will go over this Pharisee’s head. Here’s the deal…..I AM God. He seems to be holding out the promise of a future spiritual realm or way of being born of the Spirit.

Jesus was talking about the rebirth of the nation of Israel. It's spoken of throughout much of the OT.

Try looking at the "dry bones" passage in Ezekiel 37.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus was talking about the rebirth of the nation of Israel. It's spoken of throughout much of the OT.

Try looking at the "dry bones" passage in Ezekiel 37.

Indeed I love that portion of scripture, and the nation of Israel is His focus many a time, but on occasion He is answering a direct question first and, in this case it was how He was able to do what only God can do. Isn’t He explaining that He is God and that it is on a spiritual plane that won’t be achieved until He is resurrected and sends the Spirit? Like when He was telling the disciples it was His body that would be raised in three days.

Also, to be born again as a nation, that was a prophecy concerning the end days, not a spiritual birth. Right? We saw that in 1948.

 

[Right Divider]

Indeed I love that portion of scripture, and the nation of Israel is His focus many a time, but on occasion He is answering a direct question first and, in this case it was how He was able to do what only God can do. Isn’t He explaining that He is God and that it is on a spiritual plane that won’t be achieved until He is resurrected and sends the Spirit? Like when He was telling the disciples it was His body that would be raised in three days.

Again, I think that you're stretching quite a bit to get that angle.

Like I've said before (and so has Nick and Clete), the other parts of that passage must also be taken into account. Like this verse:

John 3:8 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.​

Also, to be born again as a nation, that was a prophecy concerning the end days, not a spiritual birth. Right? We saw that in 1948.

The Israel that we have today is an unbelieving nation. There is no faith in Jesus Christ over there at the moment. Someday....

 

[DAN P]

1 Peter 1:23
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and stays for ever."

Isn't the word of God for everyone!

and just where has the apostle has evr said gentiles say for gentiles says , we must be born again to gentiles ??

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Indeed I love that portion of scripture, and the nation of Israel is His focus many a time, but on occasion He is answering a direct question first and, in this case it was how He was able to do what only God can do. Isn’t He explaining that He is God and that it is on a spiritual plane that won’t be achieved until He is resurrected and sends the Spirit? Like when He was telling the disciples it was His body that would be raised in three days.

Also, to be born again as a nation, that was a prophecy concerning the end days, not a spiritual birth. Right? We saw that in 1948.

and you are right on together , but first :

# 1 Israel and Judah have to become one stick , verse , Eze 37 :16--22

#2 Israel will then be in the land , Eze 37:21

# 3 they v will be 23

# 4 where the new covenant will actually

# 5 will begin in the millinnel kingom

# 6 where King David will reign a kind

# 7 and where Christ will rule as HIGN PRIEST

# 8 and if you check Neh 11:4 and 6 as I am in the tribe of Judah , where King David and where Jesus Christ came

from , sorry to boast

dan p

 

[glorydaz]

Again, I think that you're stretching quite a bit to get that angle.

Like I've said before (and so has Nick and Clete), the other parts of that passage must also be taken into account. Like this verse:

John 3:8 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.​

The Israel that we have today is an unbelieving nation. There is no faith in Jesus Christ over there at the moment. Someday....

Perhaps you could explain exactly what that verse is referring to? Perhaps I’m missing your point. I must be, because it’s eluding me.

It‘s certainly true Israel is an unbelieving nation, but that nation was BORN in 1948. A nation born in a day. It will be hard for Israel after the antichrist sets himself up in the temple, but Israel will be saved in the end. That is when they will finally turn to their Messiah and be filled with the Spirit. Also, the Jews are suddenly returning in droves, exactly as predicted.

 

[Right Divider]

Perhaps you could explain exactly what that verse is referring to? Perhaps I’m missing your point. I must be, because it’s eluding me.

It appears, from that passage, that "born again" Israelites will have a different kind of being.

It‘s certainly true Israel is an unbelieving nation, but that nation was BORN in 1948.

This is an opinion that many Christians have.

A nation born in a day.

I don't think that the scripture supports the fulfillment of Isaiah 66:8 in 1948.

It will be hard for Israel after the antichrist sets himself up in the temple, but Israel will be saved in the end.

The ones that make it through the fire. Zech 13:7-9.

That is when they will finally turn to their Messiah and be filled with the Spirit.

Indeed.

Also, the Jews are suddenly returning in droves, exactly as predicted.

No, not exactly as predicted. Again, this is the opinion of many.

Ezek 37:11-14 (AKJV/PCE)​

(37:11) ¶ Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. (37:12) Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. (37:13) And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, (37:14) And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.​

 

[glorydaz]

It appears, from that passage, that "born again" Israelites will have a different kind of being.

Please explain.

This is an opinion that many Christians have.

I don't think that the scripture supports the fulfillment of Isaiah 66:8 in 1948.

Israel became a nation in one day. You think that’s just a coincidence? Even when you take Ezekiel 37 into account? Unbelieving Israel returning to their land after such a long dispersion?

The ones that make it through the fire. Zech 13:7-9.

Indeed.

No, not exactly as predicted. Again, this is the opinion of many.

Ezek 37:11-14 (AKJV/PCE)​

(37:11) ¶ Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. (37:12) Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. (37:13) And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, (37:14) And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.​

Oh, that’s incredible. I’d forgotten all about that Zechariah pot of gold. Yes, that spiritual awakening will come to the remnant and they will, indeed, call upon the name of the Lord. Matthew 23:39. Pairs up nicely with Zech. 13:9. They will confess with their mouths their Messiah’s name.

Which reminds me, that is what Paul was talking about in Romans 10. IMO

 

[Right Divider]

Please explain.

John 3:8-10 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (3:9) Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? (3:10) Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?​

It is clear that Nicodemus should have known already, based on scripture.

Verse 8 certainly makes it sound like "every one that is born of the Spirit" can move more freely than a normal person today.

Israel became a nation in one day. You think that’s just a coincidence?

All events of this type happen "in one day" or more properly "ON one day".

Even when you take Ezekiel 37 into account? Unbelieving Israel returning to their land after such a long dispersion?

Ezekiel 37 is about raising dead people back to life and placing them in the land of Israel.

Oh, that’s incredible. I’d forgotten all about that Zechariah pot of gold. Yes, that spiritual awakening will come to the remnant and they will, indeed, call upon the name of the Lord. Matthew 23:39. Pairs up nicely with Zech. 13:9. They will confess with their mouths their Messiah’s name.

There are many parallels throughout the scripture that is written to and about Israel.

Compare Isaiah 60 with Revelation 21

Which reminds me, that is what Paul was talking about in Romans 10. IMO

Please elaborate.

 

[glorydaz]

John 3:8-10 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (3:9) Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? (3:10) Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?​

It is clear that Nicodemus should have known already, based on scripture.

Verse 8 certainly makes it sound like "every one that is born of the Spirit" can move more freely than a normal person today.

Surely you don’t believe that. Are you talking about what happens while still in their body of flesh.

All events of this type happen "in one day" or more properly "ON one day".

Ezekiel 37 is about raising dead people back to life and placing them in the land of Israel.

Oh no, respectfully, that is not talking about dead people coming back to life. It’s talking about spiritually dead people returning to their land….dry bones….then being filled with the Spirit when they recognize their Messiah.

There are many parallels throughout the scripture that is written to and about Israel.

Compare Isaiah 60 with Revelation 21

That’s talking about a later time……there is so much in this incredible Book. Now I’m going to have to look deeper into Isaiah 60. Israel is the center of it all, and it still is today.

Please elaborate.

The part about confessing with your mouth, and what Paul was talking about in Romans 10. same Who was Jesus talking to in Matt. 23:39? He was talking to the Jews who had rejected Him. The whited sepulchers.

 

[Right Divider]

Surely you don’t believe that. Are you talking about what happens while still in their body of flesh.

No, it's what Jesus described of those "born of the Spirit".

Oh no, respectfully, that is not talking about dead people coming back to life. It’s talking about spiritually dead people returning to their land….dry bones….then being filled with the Spirit when they recognize their Messiah.

Yes, that means that this "spiritual awaking" is yet future.

This is ALL still in our future.

Ezek 37:21-28 (AKJV/PCE)​

(37:21) And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: (37:22) And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: (37:23) Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. (37:24) And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. (37:25) And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever. (37:26) Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. (37:27) My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (37:28) And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. ​

That’s talking about a later time……there is so much in this incredible Book.

I was simply talking about parallel passages to and about Israel. There are many.

Now I’m going to have to look deeper into Isaiah 60. Israel is the center of it all, and it still is today.

No, Israel is fallen today.

Rom 11:11-15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (11:12) Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? (11:13) For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: (11:14) If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them. (11:15) For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?​

The part about confessing with your mouth, and what Paul was talking about in Romans 10. same Who was Jesus talking to in Matt. 23:39? He was talking to the Jews who had rejected Him. The whited sepulchers.

Paul often uses quotes from OT scripture to make a point that is not directly related to its original use and/or context. That is what he is doing with Joel 2:32.

Rom 10:11-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(10:11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (10:12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. (10:13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

His point is that NOW, with Israel fallen, God is making no distinction between Jew and Greek. It's NOW whosoever.