Right Divider
Body part
Jesus is never "distinguished from God".
Quote some scripture if you'd like to try to make the claim.
Is Jesus God?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Quote some scripture if you'd like to try to make the claim.
Greetings again Right Divider,
Kind regards
Trevor
Acts 2:32-36 (KJV): 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Kind regards
Trevor
Right Divider
Body part
You're having some classic problems of confusion.
Jesus was BOTH God and man.
Jesus is the SON and NOT the FATHER.
So there is no problem here, except in your mind.
Yes, Jesus is God.
Here are a few reasons that tell us that He is.
First of all, where the Old Testament has God's prophets saying "Thus saith the LORD," not once in the New testament is that phrase found. Instead, it is replaced with Jesus saying "I say unto you."
Which leads into the next reason:
Whereas all of the prophets and writers of the Old Testament pointed to God with everything they said and did, in the New Testament, Jesus' entire message was about, no, not the Father (whom most people consider God anyways; in fact, it's almost undisputed that the Father is God), but HIMSELF! (More on this can be found at kgov.com/deity)
The next is that the standard for establishing a matter is "two or three witnesses." We find this standard throughout the Bible, meaning it must be pretty important. So what about the matter of if God is righteous? If He created all things, and everything that exists was made by Him (barring Himself of course), then He would have been alone for all of eternity past, which raises the question, "How does God know He is righteous?" The answer lies in Euthyphro's dilemma, which asks whether God is good because he recognizes it as good (which would imply a standard above God, making God "not God"), or that God is good because he commands it to be good (or, as Socrates put it, because God likes it). The answer is that God is good because each of the three Members of the trinity can affirm that neither of the other two Persons have ever wronged the one or the other. God is literally three Witnesses to His righteousness, which establishes that because He IS good, everything He does is good. (More on this can be found at kgov.com/euthyphro)
The last reason we have that Jesus is God is the number three (3).
"Three" is found literally everywhere in nature: three basic states of matter (solid, liquid, gas), three sub-atomic particles that make up the atom (proton, neutron, electron), three words used to tell time (past, present, future) and three words to tell "when" (before, during, after), there is a word for a series (of movies, books, etc) of three (trilogy) but not for any other number. Man is body, soul, and spirit. Earth is the third planet from Sol. Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days, and Jesus, who began His ministry (which lasted for three years) at 30 years of age, was in the tomb for three days. Israel's three patriarchs are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The priestly tribe of Levi is from Jacob's third child. Leviticus (named after Levi) is the third book in the Bible. The day the law was given, about three thousand men were killed, but the day the Spirit was given, about three thousand were saved. The Hebrew Scriptures are comprised of three sections: The Law, The Prophets, and The Writings. (More on this can be found at kgov.com/three)
All of these things point to Jesus as being God.
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The Jews in 'John 10:33-38 thought that's what Jesus was admitting to. “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[a]? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
Jesus was making Himself EQUAL TO God the Father, when He stated: "the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” John 10:30 "I and My Father are one.”
John 14:9-11 "Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[a]? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
Jesus was making Himself EQUAL TO God the Father, when He stated: "the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” John 10:30 "I and My Father are one.”
John 14:9-11 "Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, yet, they are one.
Greetings again Right Divider,
Acts 2:22–24 (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Kind regards
Trevor
Interesting claim, but I disagree. There is another part of Acts 2 where the One God, the Father is distinguished from Jesus, the Son of God:
Acts 2:22–24 (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Kind regards
Trevor
Who was the Word who walked among us? See John 1:14
Greetings again Bright Raven,
John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 2:40,52 (KJV): 40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
Kind regards
Trevor
Yes, it was Jesus the Son of God, who was begotten by the power of God the Father, the Holy Spirit coming on Mary his mother, and thus Jesus was the only begotten of the Father his father. This reveals how The Word became flesh. As a child he developed, and at the time of his revealing to Israel, John witnessed his walking amongst them and testified of his moral glory, and states that Jesus was “full of grace and truth”
John 1:14 (KJV): And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 2:40,52 (KJV): 40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
Kind regards
Trevor
Right Divider
Body part
Your complete inability to understand that Jesus is BOTH God and man is your problem.
I guess that you think that Jesus was a liar when He said that HE would raise HIS body up after three days.
And who was Jesus before He became flesh?
I realize I'm speaking to the CHOIR, however, before He came in the flesh, He was the 'creator of all.' Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him
Good point. Jesus was exactly like his brothers. (Hebrews 2:17)
TestedandTried
New member
Yes He is...Jesus is God. As Isaiah puts it ...
Isaiah 9:6-7:
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7
Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.
So, the Son is the Son, the Holy Spirit (Wonderful Counselor) Mighty God and Everlasting Father
Paul pens similarly...
Romans 9:5:
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
Isaiah 9:6-7:
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7
Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.
So, the Son is the Son, the Holy Spirit (Wonderful Counselor) Mighty God and Everlasting Father
Paul pens similarly...
Romans 9:5:
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
Greetings again Bright Raven,
Kind regards
Trevor
Jesus became flesh in the same way as any other child, he was conceived and born. Do you believe that everyone preexisted, and if so, who was Bright Raven before you became flesh? otherwise your question is not relevant to the conception, birth and development of Jesus, the Son of God his father, and Mary his mother. Jesus is the name of the child born.
Kind regards
Trevor
Do you see the connection between John 1:1 and John 1:14?
John 1:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14
John 1:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The Bible is a big book.....read it.
Philippians 2:6-8
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Greetings again Bright Raven,
Kind regards
Trevor
Yes, and the process whereby God's spoken word and the wisdom behind that word became flesh was by means of the conception and birth of Jesus, "the only begotten of the Father", with God the Father as his father, and Mary as his mother, not by shrinking the second person of the Trinity into the womb of Mary. The glory revealed was a moral glory "full of grace and truth", but Trinitarians do not want to look at the details of John 1:14. John beheld Jesus' glory at the beginning and throughout Jesus' ministry.
Kind regards
Trevor
Greetings glorydaz,
Kind regards
Trevor
Yes, and I suppose that you will quote one favourite so-called Trinitarian verse after another. Philippians 2 is speaking about the disposition of mind of Jesus as he grew up and during his ministry. He had been born in the form of God, and as the Son of God he was the greatest Prince ever born, but he did not use his status, and demand recognition in pride, but humbled himself as a servant, even unto crucifixion and death. As a result God has highly exalted him, and when we do obeisance to Jesus it is to the glory of God the Father, not to the Trinity. Please read the detail and understand what Paul is actually saying.
Kind regards
Trevor