Is death just another life?

[Derf]

So the devil gets his eternal life through the person he murdered?

I don’t understand this comment, ffree. Can you explain?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Why would you need the “apart from God” caveat?

Just answer the question, Derf!

If God created man in such a way that he would last forever, regardless of the status of his physical body, do you think that there would be anything that could destroy man?

Surely it is God we are talking about

There's a reason I'm asking this question, Derf. There's an important point I'm trying to make.

 

[Derf]

Just answer the question, Derf!

If God created man in such a way that he would last forever, regardless of the status of his physical body, do you think that there would be anything that could destroy man?



There's a reason I'm asking this question, Derf. There's an important point I'm trying to make.

Yes. Disobedience to God. I’m pretty sure this is consistent with answer I already gave.

Edit: and perhaps “could” should replace “would” in your question. The first words the Bible tells us God spoke to Adam allow for man not to live forever.

 

[marke]

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So the devil gets his eternal life through the person he murdered?

He earned the wage he gets, death, because of his sin. Death does not equal eternal life.

The Bible does not teach that death is always meant to be interpreted as the cessation of existence.

 

[grumix8]

G-d revives with shout of an archangel wil come and revive those who are faithful to him. We die but we were not originally meant to die but death is sleep. We will awaken and again be ressurected thru his system of revival thru his breath. The bible says it he breath thru us as we are borned gave us his breath ( soul we have ) and when we die the soul ( breath of the lord ) goes back when he come as the Lord Jesus he will revive us. Death is sleep our soul does not have another adventure or death is an adventure, Baptized all of you please because the lord loves ya.

 

[Derf]

The Bible does not teach that death is always meant to be interpreted as the cessation of existence.

But does the Bible ever teach that death is the cessation of existence? Even one time?

 

[Gary K]

I don’t understand this comment, ffree. Can you explain?

Read the text I quoted, Romans 6:19-23, again to see where/how we get to have eternal life. Through whom does eternal life come?

 

[Derf]

Read the text I quoted, Romans 6:19-23, again to see where/how we get to have eternal life. Through whom does eternal life come?

We, yes, but Satan? No. We never hear about a spiritual being dying. Maybe it can happen, but the Bible doesn’t talk about it. If we assume from that lack of evidence (always a risk) that Satan can’t die, then he doesn’t get eternal life like we do, who haven’t had it since Adam’s fall until Christ.

 

[Gary K]

But does the Bible ever teach that death is the cessation of existence? Even one time?

That is what the Bible teaches death is.

Job 7:9
Job 21:32
Job 24:19
Psalm 6:5
Psalm 88:5
Isaiah 38:18

There are a whole lot more texts on this but this should be enough to make my point.

 

[Gary K]

We, yes, but Satan? No. We never hear about a spiritual being dying. Maybe it can happen, but the Bible doesn’t talk about it. If we assume from that lack of evidence (always a risk) that Satan can’t die, then he doesn’t get eternal life like we do, who haven’t had it since Adam’s fall until Christ.

God is life. All life comes from Him. If anyone chooses to live apart from God, and in rebellion against Him, is there anything moral, ethical or just that says God must keep on giving that person life? He is the Creator is He not justified in removing life from someone who is disrupting all life in His universe?

 

[Gary K]

We, yes, but Satan? No. We never hear about a spiritual being dying. Maybe it can happen, but the Bible doesn’t talk about it. If we assume from that lack of evidence (always a risk) that Satan can’t die, then he doesn’t get eternal life like we do, who haven’t had it since Adam’s fall until Christ.

What does the following text mean?

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Yes. Disobedience to God. I’m pretty sure this is consistent with answer I already gave.

In what way does disobedience to God fall in line with what I said, which was: "(and by [destroy], I mean that a man, by being destroyed, would cease to exist)"?

More to the point, do you think that "being destroyed" (again, by "destroyed," I mean that they would cease to exist) would satisfy the needs of justice brought about by their sins?

What does scripture say?

Edit: and perhaps “could” should replace “would” in your question. The first words the Bible tells us God spoke to Adam allow for man not to live forever.

In one sense, sure. But in the sense that those words were said, no. Those words He spoke to them were intended to warn them of the consequences of rebelling, that they would be separated from Him. And they did, and they were. They were kicked out of the Garden, separated from Him.

But does the Bible ever teach that death is the cessation of existence? Even one time?

No.

 

[Derf]

In what way does disobedience to God fall in line with what I said, which was: "(and by [destroy], I mean that a man, by being destroyed, would cease to exist)"?

More to the point, do you think that "being destroyed" (again, by "destroyed," I mean that they would cease to exist) would satisfy the needs of justice brought about by their sins?

What does scripture say?

I just quoted the scripture that applies. It said they would die. This is in contrast to what God did when He gave them life. If Adam started as dust, and God made him alive, then what would he be when he dies? Wouldn't he return to what he was before? Dust?

In one sense, sure. But in the sense that those words were said, no. Those words He spoke to them were intended to warn them of the consequences of rebelling, that they would be separated from Him. And they did, and they were. They were kicked out of the Garden, separated from Him.

Then their punishment was complete. Why did they then have to die again? Is God unjust to require two penalties for one sin.

No.

No offense, but that question wasn't for you.

 

[Right Divider]

I just quoted the scripture that applies. It said they would die. This is in contrast to what God did when He gave them life. If Adam started as dust, and God made him alive, then what would he be when he dies? Wouldn't he return to what he was before? Dust?

Only his BODY was from the dust... not his SOUL and SPIRIT.

 

[way 2 go]

Sure. And a spiritually dead person can ask to bury an old spiritually dead person who isn’t yet physically dead. If you allow for “dead” to mean still alive in one case, you have to allow for it in the other.

no , context defines the meaning

for example:
I hate to break this to you but the bank that was built on the river bank had some one break the windows in it .

BTW never bury people who are alive

Jesus understood their question quite well, and restated it for them:

Mark 12:26 (NKJV) But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the [burning] bush [passage,] how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I [am] the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ?
So His answer was about the dead rising, and that’s why God calls Himself the Gid of the living—because it is talking about the resurrection.

God says “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” because they are alive

how can God be their God if they don't exist ?

Exo 3:6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

Mat 22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

I agree. They will be called “the dead”, even though they have been physically resurrected. Thus your point about the man burying his father is moot. Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.

you only bury physically dead people . so not moot

how are they still dead and standing after being resurrected, as that is not your position ?

Rev_6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.
Rev 6:10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

Not only dead, but awakened from some kind of rest temporarily, and then returned to that rest. Sounds a bit like Moses, yes?

you don't even hold to your own position
"My position is that when someone is dead, they are dead--there's no life in them or any part of them, and they cease to function in any way and in any place, until they are resurrected."

not so nice rescue device "the temporary resurrection" , is that the regular human body resurrection like Lazarus?
the souls under the alter are not souls but temporary resurrected bodies ?
dose that make God a murder when he kills them ?

 

[way 2 go]

This is a valuable conversation.

yes

Do the eternally damned have to live forever in order to be punished forever?

no , the bible calls unbelievers dead

I tend to think they do, but it’s not the type of life Christ came to give us, the more abundant kind.

provide evidence then

But I think I can explain some of the difference, or at least why there is a difference.

Remember that death is thrown into the lake of fire (along with Hades), and then the term “second death” which is used earlier in Rev without definition, is defined for us—twice.
Revelation 20:14 (NKJV)
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

death is a condition Eph_2:1
death is a person Rev_6:8
death is a place

Revelation 21:8 (NKJV)
“But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[way 2 go]

Except for the one that lasted forty years:
Hebrews 3:8-9 (NKJV) 8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years.

Notice it uses the same form “in the day”

how do you know it lasted forty years ?

that dose not apply here

day =one rotation of the earth
Adam & Eve died the day they ate from the tree knowledge of good and evil
Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
.
Eph_2:1

 

[way 2 go]

I agree with the concept of an eternal punishment, but not an eternal punishing. For that to happen those suffering an eternal punishing must live forever. They must be alive to experience that.

no , they just have to exist

The eternal fires of Sodom and Gomorrha went out thousands of years ago but the punishment lasts forever as those people will not live again. They are forever gone. That is just. Torturing them for an eternity for decades of rebellion is not just nor fair, and God is always just.

Mat_11:24 But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.”

 

[way 2 go]

If Adam and Eve had not sinned they they would have lived forever. They would have been eternal beings. Once they sinned they became mortal therefore their sin made them subject to death.

not just subject to death Eph_2:1
Adam & Eve died the day they ate from the tree knowledge of good and evil
Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

 

[way 2 go]

That is what the Bible teaches death is.

Job 7:9


There are a whole lot more texts on this but this should be enough to make my point.

Job 7:9 As the cloud fades and vanishes, so he who goes down to Sheol does not come up;

physically on their own , no

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.