Brother Ducky
New member
Are you arguing that one can not know they are saved?
Is constant confession needed for forgiveness?
- Thread starter jzeidler
- Start date
Are you arguing that one can not know they are saved?
genuineoriginal
New member
A person knows whether he is in fellowship with the Son of God or not.
1 John 5:12-13 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. |
Brother Ducky
New member
Then I am not sure what the problem is.
for some here -
this is the problem -
give us this day our daily bread -
and -
forgive us our trespasses -
musterion
Well-known member
Only because you're obtuse. The point has been made several times in the past and you've seen it made. Keep playing dumb. You can always claim God preordained you to do it.
Brother Ducky
New member
Obtuse? Perhaps. And yes the point has been made several times, and I have never quite had it make sense. So, maybe obtuse. Lots of incorrect theological positions have been made several, or gazillions of times. Does not make the position correct or clear.
Calvinists would typically hold that one can be in a state of salvation if and only if one was elect/predestined. Therefore, if one is saved, one is also elect.
If one can know that one is saved, one also knows that they are elect.
Brother Ducky
New member
Then one can not know they are saved. If the possibility of knowing that one is elect is impossible because of the possibility of being wrong, then the possibility of knowing that one is saved is also impossible for the same reason.
lifeisgood
New member
That still does not answer the question of how the elect knows he/she is elected.
Satan also believes but he is not elected.
musterion
Well-known member
Brother Ducky
New member
Well, we have already established that I am obtuse.
What is the wrong premise?
Why is the conclusion wrong?
Not very bright. Election includes faith
More unbrights. Spirits elected for what?
lifeisgood
New member
That still does not answer the question of how the elect knows he/she is elected.
Jzeidler, its an interesting question you ask because it discusses quantity vs. quality. When talking about forgiveness, the following passages are good to read; Matthew 18:21, Mark 11:25, Luke 6:37, and Luke 17:3.
I do believe the matter is also a question of heart. Say for example a law abiding person who follows the laws completely was one day tempted to cheat on a test. The person knew it would be wrong but for a multitude of reasons but decided to cheat on the test anyway. The person knew the consequences if caught but still took the risk. Now lets say after the test, he was not caught, and judged everyone and anyone else who did cheat on the test. Saying that it was wrong, and even though he knew he cheated, he believed he could simply ask once or a multitude of times for forgiveness and that he would be forgiven. ...The problem here is that when put in a position of temptation again, this man would probably cheat again, thinking it possible to confess his way out of any situation, and pretending to be honorable on the surface by condemning anyone else who cheats.
Compare that to someone who may have been tempted, asked for forgiveness and was forgiving towards others who had cheated, and never again in his life cheated on a test again. Or someone who was wrongly accused of cheating, asked for forgiveness, forgave others, and never purposely cheated on a test ever.
So I believe its not a matter of quantity but of the quality of your request for forgiveness. Are you asking forgiveness knowing if you are tempted again you will still do the wrong thing or asking forgiveness for something you refuse to forgive someone else for? In those cases I don't believe any amount of asking for forgiveness will make a difference. However, asking for forgiveness, making a change of your self for the better, learning from it, being merciful towards others, and teaching others why it is wrong, I think all those actions mean more.
Asking for forgiveness is about relationship in the end; does it make sense to keep saying I'm sorry for the same mistake to someone when you and they know you are simply going to betray their trust over and over again? Doesn't it make more sense that you know they will forgive you and their trust in you will be restored if you keep your word and not do the very thing they asked you not to do in the first place?
I hope this helps answer your question, that and as a Christian I am taught that when i do commit a sin (hopefully not the same one every time) I should ask for forgiveness and also for the forgiveness of any sins I may have unknowingly committed. Matthew 18:21 may be the closest verse to answering your question about quantity concerning forgiveness in the NT, but after searching I found no chapter or verse that actively supports constant confession in order to gain forgiveness (assuming here the confession concerns the same sin being committed continuously.)
God arranges circumstances. He may arrange a circumstance around you five years from now to devert you to change your path based on your environment and your state of mind. In other words, don't try new age positive thinking to boost your confidence. Your confidence is based on your imagination.
do calvinists say the Our Father?
heir
TOL Subscriber
Do you not believe that all of your trespasses are forgiven (Colossians 2:13 KJV)?