If God created...

J

Jonahdog

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Rosenritter said:
Sometimes a child thinks they can push some metal together and it will make a car. If he just hits it often enough and hard enough it will eventually work, right? If he tries millions and billions of times, one of them will succeed?

The cell is more complex by orders of magnitude. You don't make a cell by accident.
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No one has answered my question. what did the first cells look like?
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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Jonahdog said:
Which atheist? Citation please.
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http://www.wasdarwinright.com/simplecells.htm
Introduction In Darwin's day, many people swallowed the theory of spontaneous generation - that life arose from non-living matter. It was somewhat easier to believe because the cell's structure was almost unknown.

Ernst Haeckel, Darwin's populariser in Germany, claimed that a cell was a 'simple lump' of aluminous combination of carbon (cited in Behe, 1996)
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That's just one example. You remember Haeckel, right?


 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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Jonahdog said:
Yep, as I's sure you remember--The earth is the center of the solar system. Illness is caused by unbalance humors in the body. Etc.

Science moves on, creationists have difficulty with that notion.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism

Humorism, or humoralism, was a system of medicine detailing the makeup and workings of the human body, adopted by Ancient Greek and Roman physicians and philosophers, positing that an excess or deficiency of any of four distinct bodily fluids in a person—known as humors or humours—directly influences their temperament and health. It is also present in the Indian Ayurveda system of medicine.
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You're pretty funny sometimes Jonahdog. And isn't the current "accepted" system of medicine awesome now? When the body is overcome with sickness, inject it with more poisons or destroy the immune system with radiation? And it works so well, doesn't it?


http://www.icr.org/article/christianity-technological-advance-astonishing-con/
The Epistemological Foundation of Technology

​
According to Alfred North Whitehead and J. Robert Oppenheimer, both renowned philosophers and scientists of our era (but not Christians themselves), modern science was born out of the Christian world view. Whitehead said that Christianity is the "mother of science" because of the insistence on the rationality of God.[1]

Entomologist Stanley Beck,though not a Christian himself, acknowledged the corner-stone premises of science which the Judeo-Christian world view offers: "The first of the unprovable premises on which science has been based is the belief that the world is real and the human mind is capable of knowing its real nature. The second and best-known postulate underlying the structure of scientific knowledge is that of cause and effect. The third basic scientific premise is that nature is unified."[2] In other words, the epistemological foundation of technology has been the Judeo-Christian world view presented in the Bible.
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Spoiler

This may sound incredible to some because of the popular feeling that science and religion don't mix. Didn't Christianity vehemently oppose Galileo and Copernicus when they proposed the modern models for the solar system?
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The truth, however, is that the real conflict was not between Christianity, as presented in the Bible, and science. In fact, the true conflict was not between science and religion at all, but between the existing scientific view and a new scientific view.
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The geocentric world view held at that time was not based on the Bible but on the Ptolemaic system which was rooted in the views of Plato and Aristotle.
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Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
Jonahdog said:
Yep, as I's sure you remember--The earth is the center of the solar system. Illness is caused by unbalance humors in the body. Etc.

Science moves on, creationists have difficulty with that notion.
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http://www.icr.org/article/christianity-technological-advance-astonishing-con/

Historians have observed that the foundations for modern science were laid as early as the thirteenth century when scholars like Roger Bacon showed that Aristotle made certain mistakes about natural phenomena. Medieval science was based on authority -- primarily of Aristotle -- rather than observation. It developed through logic, rather than experimentation.[3] Both Copernicus and Galileo challenged Aristotle's authority, using experimentation in the spirit of modern science. The Biblical emphasis of the Reformation, just prior to this, had already paved the way for dropping Aristotle's authority; it also encouraged the rational investigation of our world.

Perhaps the most obvious affirmation that Biblical Christianity and science are friends and not foes comes from the fact that most of the early scientists after the Renaissance were also strong believers in the Bible as the authoritative source of knowledge concerning the origin of the universe and man's place in it.[4] The book of Genesis, the opening book of the Bible, presents the distinctly Judeo-Christian world view of a personal Creator God behind the origin and sustenance of the universe (Genesis 1:1; Colossians 1:17; etc.).

Among the early scientists of note who held the Biblical creationist world view are Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727), and Samuel Morse (1791-1872) - what motivated them was a confidence in the "rationality" behind the universe and the "goodness" of the material world. The creation account in Genesis presents an intelligent, purposeful Creator, who, after completing the creation work, declared it to be very good (Genesis 1:31). That assures us that the physical universe operates under reliable laws which may be discovered by the intelligent mind and used in practical applications. The confidence in the divinely pronounced goodness of the material world removed any reluctance concerning the development of material things for the betterment of life in this world. The spiritual world and the material world can work together in harmony.

Genesis also gives another important motivation for the investigation of the laws of nature and application of it to technology. That is the divine mandate given to man to subdue the earth (Genesis 1:26-28). Obviously, the discovery of the laws of nature is the key to harnessing the powers of nature for man's use and control. Herein is the key to the motivation for developing technology. Genesis 4 records the earliest technological developments by man (4:21-22).

The world view held in many cultures, however, is different from the Biblical creationist view. Religions influenced by dualistic philosophies view the material world with suspicion and hostility. The material world is considered evil, while the spiritual world is considered good and noble. Renouncing this world became the mark of holiness. Equally detrimental to the development of science were world views that did not have a concept of a supreme personal Creator God. Some of the ancient civilizations, for example, which did develop some mathematics and technologies, did not develop general scientific theories, because of the absence of a creationist perspective that gives confidence in the existence of rational laws in nature. This clearly explains the lack of interest on the part of these cultures in scientific research and technology. It also shows how the Reformation, with its return to Biblical Christianity, spurred a phenomenal interest in fundamental research and technology. The great scientific advances and the industrial revolution that followed bear this out.

http://www.icr.org/article/christianity-technological-advance-astonishing-con/


Pro 25:2 KJV
(2) It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
 
J

Jonahdog

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Banned
Rosenritter said:
You're pretty funny sometimes Jonahdog. And isn't the current "accepted" system of medicine awesome now? When the body is overcome with sickness, inject it with more poisons or destroy the immune system with radiation? And it works so well, doesn't it?
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Interesting. If you were really ill what would you do? Go to an MD? Would you take the antibiotics that might be prescribed for you?
If a doctor suggested chemotherapy or radiation treatments for a cancer a loved one had, what would you suggest they do?
 
J

Jonahdog

BANNED
Banned
Rosenritter said:
http://www.icr.org/article/christianity-technological-advance-astonishing-con/

Historians have observed that the foundations for modern science were laid as early as the thirteenth century when scholars like Roger Bacon showed that Aristotle made certain mistakes about natural phenomena. Medieval science was based on authority -- primarily of Aristotle -- rather than observation. It developed through logic, rather than experimentation.[3] Both Copernicus and Galileo challenged Aristotle's authority, using experimentation in the spirit of modern science. The Biblical emphasis of the Reformation, just prior to this, had already paved the way for dropping Aristotle's authority; it also encouraged the rational investigation of our world.

Perhaps the most obvious affirmation that Biblical Christianity and science are friends and not foes comes from the fact that most of the early scientists after the Renaissance were also strong believers in the Bible as the authoritative source of knowledge concerning the origin of the universe and man's place in it.[4] The book of Genesis, the opening book of the Bible, presents the distinctly Judeo-Christian world view of a personal Creator God behind the origin and sustenance of the universe (Genesis 1:1; Colossians 1:17; etc.).

Among the early scientists of note who held the Biblical creationist world view are Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727), and Samuel Morse (1791-1872) - what motivated them was a confidence in the "rationality" behind the universe and the "goodness" of the material world. The creation account in Genesis presents an intelligent, purposeful Creator, who, after completing the creation work, declared it to be very good (Genesis 1:31). That assures us that the physical universe operates under reliable laws which may be discovered by the intelligent mind and used in practical applications. The confidence in the divinely pronounced goodness of the material world removed any reluctance concerning the development of material things for the betterment of life in this world. The spiritual world and the material world can work together in harmony.

Genesis also gives another important motivation for the investigation of the laws of nature and application of it to technology. That is the divine mandate given to man to subdue the earth (Genesis 1:26-28). Obviously, the discovery of the laws of nature is the key to harnessing the powers of nature for man's use and control. Herein is the key to the motivation for developing technology. Genesis 4 records the earliest technological developments by man (4:21-22).

The world view held in many cultures, however, is different from the Biblical creationist view. Religions influenced by dualistic philosophies view the material world with suspicion and hostility. The material world is considered evil, while the spiritual world is considered good and noble. Renouncing this world became the mark of holiness. Equally detrimental to the development of science were world views that did not have a concept of a supreme personal Creator God. Some of the ancient civilizations, for example, which did develop some mathematics and technologies, did not develop general scientific theories, because of the absence of a creationist perspective that gives confidence in the existence of rational laws in nature. This clearly explains the lack of interest on the part of these cultures in scientific research and technology. It also shows how the Reformation, with its return to Biblical Christianity, spurred a phenomenal interest in fundamental research and technology. The great scientific advances and the industrial revolution that followed bear this out.

http://www.icr.org/article/christianity-technological-advance-astonishing-con/


Pro 25:2 KJV
(2) It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
Click to expand...

Perhaps an interesting, but certainly unanswerable, question is: What would Newton, Pascal, etc. believe now, given the current state of scientific information?
 
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