If God created...

Stuu

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What Lewis showed in "Religion and Science" in GOD IN THE DOCK was that uniformitarianism has only mathematics. They cannot answer any other question. He called that Nature (Cap N). So in his analogy of the missing coins, a mathematician has no way to answer the type of question being dealt with, which should be taken up by a 'detective' or a 'psychic' or a 'psychiatrist'. A person would almost immediately conclude that something/one outside of nature (the phsyical world, not Uniformitarianism) acted in nature.
That's not what I read in that chapter. I might be biased from childhood here, or perhaps usefully forewarned, but when I was ten years old I attempted reads of the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe and The Silver Chair (didn't make it to the end of that one) and decided that CS Lewis couldn't write for children. I couldn't articulate why exactly at that stage, but probably it was because the writing is not honest, which I think is important for children.

You understand what I mean by that, I hope. If the allegory, or whatever you want to call it is false, then it is a case of lying to children by analogy, and because christianity is full of adult themes unsuitable for children, it is unfairly presenting a miserable view of humanity, which only requires a quick scan of The Screwtape Letters to see laid out for adults.

So I wouldn't go so far as to say he couldn't write, but in that chapter of God in the Dock he used his facility with language to hide the emptiness of what he was saying. At best it looks like wishful thinking, or wishful dreaming.

What if it could be shown that there is a universal supermeddler? Well, it hasn't, but the consequences of that claim are much more specific than his waffle. One creationist claim is that the speed of light has changed and that explains why things look older than they really are. The argument, as per Lewis (I think) is that you can't tell that the speed of light hasn't changed.

Well, actually you can because the speed of light has some profound implications for the stability of matter. But the most amusing thing for me in that moronic creationist view is that, if you take it seriously, the universe and the earth could actually be much older than 'science' thinks.

Stuart
 

Stuu

New member
What never fails to puzzle me about evolution and U'ism in public education is the defensiveness. They need 'safe space.' What on earth for? If a thing is true, it does not need security forces to protect it. It can be open to questions. It's just a scheme to undermine the US Constitution, which will assuredly destroy freedom under God on the planet, and put everyone under an Orwellian structure.
I think you might say differently if it was fundamentalist islamic jihadism being introduced into schools as a vehicle for 'questioning' Western civilization and its soulless consumerism.

The only difference with the creationism you are advocating is there aren't nearly as many beheadings.

Why do creationists have to target schools, bypassing universities and other research institutes, if their ideas are so convincing?

Stuart
 

6days

New member
The only difference with the creationism you are advocating is there aren't nearly as many beheadings.
Haha Stuu..... Creationism hasn't ever resulted in any beheadings. However, evolutionism an offshoot of atheism has resulted in genocides of many millions of people. Evolutionism is opposite of Creationism. It is the advocacy of the common ancestry belief system. It also sometimes involves the belief That nothing created everything, and that life can come from non lIfe. Atheism / Darwinism played a large role in the Nazi's trying to help natural selection by eliminating people they thought were less fit than themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdH0c2FS-Wg You should also take a look at the doctrine of atheism pushed by Stalin and Mao, and the role it played. (Atheism and Darwinism likely have resulted in the murder of more than 100 million people)
 

6days

New member
What never fails to puzzle me about evolution and U'ism in public education is the defensiveness. They need 'safe space.' What on earth for? If a thing is true, it does not need security forces to protect it. It can be open to questions. It's just a scheme to undermine the US Constitution, which will assuredly destroy freedom under God on the planet, and put everyone under an Orwellian structure.

Yes... good comments. Intellectual freedom does not apply according to many atheists. They even try prevent kids from asking questions that challenge their belief system. The funny thing is that evolutionists basically have created a huge strawman argument. Biblical creationists do not want the Bible taught in secular schools by secular teachers. That is the responsibility of parents.
 

Stuu

New member
However, evolutionism an offshoot of atheism
Certainly there has always been atheism, but to be satisfied intellectually really requires the understanding of the natural world that evolution by natural selection provides, so there is a case to be made for atheism, in the modern sense, being partly a result of Darwin's work.

has resulted in genocides of many millions of people.
Some crackpots have killed in the name of Social Darwinism, but that's not evolution by natural selection, it's artificial selection. It's easy for you to say 'many millions', but which victims of mass slaughter are you identifying as resulting from Darwin understanding how the diversity of life came to be the way it is?

Evolutionism is opposite of Creationism. It is the advocacy of the common ancestry belief system.
...which is based in the demonstrated fact that all life shares common ancestry.

It also sometimes involves the belief That nothing created everything,
Please show us the quote from any of the editions of Origin of Species, or any modern text on evolutionary theory, that verifies your claim.

and that life can come from non lIfe.
What is life, and how does it differ from non-life, exactly?

And what does Genesis 2:7 say about the start of human life, if it is not exactly as you are accusing?

Atheism / Darwinism played a large role in the Nazi's trying to help natural selection by eliminating people they thought were less fit than themselves.
Lazy, lazy, lazy. Have a read from the writing of the man himself:

I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2


What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfil the mission assigned to it by the Creator.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8


In short, the results of miscegenation are always the following: (a) The level of the superior race becomes lowered; (b) physical and mental degeneration sets in, thus leading slowly but steadily towards a progressive drying up of the vital sap. The act which brings about such a development is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator. And as a sin this act will be avenged.

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11


So you really need to have a look at the christian cults like Catholicism to understand his motivation.

You should also take a look at the doctrine of atheism pushed by Stalin and Mao, and the role it played. (Atheism and Darwinism likely have resulted in the murder of more than 100 million people)
Hitler murdered in the name of totalitarian racist ideology, motivated by his interpretation of Catholicism. Artificial selection of murder victims is not natural selection.

Stalin replaced all messiah and god figures with himself as the centre of his own totalitarian personality cult, which was the motivation for mass murder in the name of communist ideology. That really comes under the category of a religion. It's not atheism that killed anyone. How could 'there are no gods' be translated into 'we need to slaughter millions'? It needs some kind of religion to make good people do bad things. Stalin got rid of the Eastern Orthodox Church and took its place himself as the religious motive. Ask the Catholic church if they count communism as a religion.

The number of people killed specifically in the name of atheism is not that many. You are looking for the likes of Jeffrey Dahmer and his claim If a person doesn't think that there is a god to be accountable to, then what's the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That's how I thought anyway. What other logic is relevant? But in Dahmer's case he was clearly very unwell mentally.

Stuart
 

Jonahdog

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No I heard the author interviewed and he thought Darwin completely missed the boat by not factoring in the purpose of each creature. But I did not hear most of it.

What is the purpose of a malaria parasite? Let's start there, what would Turner say about that?
 

Jonahdog

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Evolutionist Dr. Oxnard pointed out 3 things about 'australopithecus' or "Lucy." She was not dated right as a fossil goes. She never used all 4 pods to walk. She was only a few years old. He found that it was not the magic find that conventional evolution had said. He did not leave his beliefs because of it, but he had the integrity to point out junk science where he found it.
Citation please to this otherwise picked out of thin air evolutionist, Dr. Oxnard
 

Jonahdog

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I missed the Wiki part. Wiki is as censorious as Youtube or google. Stop worshipping consensus. Wiki just says things in a way that obscures real questions. Like the statement that there was no global flood. It sounds like a KGB document would put things, and it may be just that. The event in question was an ancient cataclysm and it is easily found, in literature and in the rocks.

I looked at Wiki for a quick reference. You still did not tell us if your read Turner's book.

By the way---there was no Biblical world wide flood. Why don't you short circuit all of this and contact Turner, have him explain his position to you. And while you are at it, ask him if he has any evidence for your Flood.
 

6days

New member
What is the purpose of a malaria parasite? Let's start there, what would Turner say about that?
I'm not sure who Turner is, but of course Malaria and a host of other viruses, bacterial infections and genetic problems don't have purpose. However, they are consistent with a "very good" creation that has been subjected to entropy. Most bacteria for example are essential to life on our planet. They need to be able to adapt to changing conditions rapidly. (And they have very unique methods allowing that) Surely evolutionists understand that mutations can cause a good bacteria to become harmful?
 

patrick jane

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- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11



Hitler murdered in the name of totalitarian racist ideology, motivated by his interpretation of Catholicism. Artificial selection of murder victims is not natural selection.

Stalin replaced all messiah and god figures with himself as the centre of his own totalitarian personality cult, which was the motivation for mass murder in the name of communist ideology. That really comes under the category of a religion. It's not atheism that killed anyone. How could 'there are no gods' be translated into 'we need to slaughter millions'? It needs some kind of religion to make good people do bad things. Stalin got rid of the Eastern Orthodox Church and took its place himself as the religious motive. Ask the Catholic church if they count communism as a religion.

The number of people killed specifically in the name of atheism is not that many. You are looking for the likes of Jeffrey Dahmer and his claim If a person doesn't think that there is a god to be accountable to, then what's the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That's how I thought anyway. What other logic is relevant? But in Dahmer's case he was clearly very unwell mentally.

Stuart
Looks like you've studied much more about Hitler and Stalin than about Jesus Christ.
 

Jonahdog

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Stuu didn't say Christianity though.... But if you want to compare which religion is responsible for the most atrocities, it would be atheism of course.

Uh, no. I would vote for Christianity especially in combination with Western European expansionism 1400 on.
 

Jonahdog

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I'm not sure who Turner is, but of course Malaria and a host of other viruses, bacterial infections and genetic problems don't have purpose. However, they are consistent with a "very good" creation that has been subjected to entropy. Most bacteria for example are essential to life on our planet. They need to be able to adapt to changing conditions rapidly. (And they have very unique methods allowing that) Surely evolutionists understand that mutations can cause a good bacteria to become harmful?

Turner is the person Interplanner cited as having an issue with Darwin because Darwin did not factor in the "purpose" of living things.
Surely you understand that your understanding of science based on a religious Holy Book is simply silly.
 

Stuu

New member
Looks like you've studied much more about Hitler and Stalin than about Jesus Christ.
It's just that I have responded to the false claim about Hitler and Stalin before.

I have done quite a bit on Jesus, not so much on the christ bit, which is fiction. I remain interested in what is true.

Stuart
 

Stuu

New member
I didn't mention Hitler. The Nazi's used Darwinism to justify murder.
So it was just the Nazis, not Hitler, and you don't believe the writings of that head Nazi.

Looks like you don't put limits on your denial of history.

Stuart
 

Stuu

New member
I'm not sure who Turner is, but of course Malaria and a host of other viruses, bacterial infections and genetic problems don't have purpose. ... They need to be able to adapt to changing conditions rapidly.
And other species don't have to change quite as rapidly because their conditions are a bit more stable, so the rate of change is slower, right?

Stuart
 
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