Idol Worship -- what does it look like?

[Crucible]

Idolatry was an ancient problem in which people would make false incantations and worship them as God.

Bowing down to a statue is not the 'definition' of idolatry by biblical standards.

But, you'll never be able to convince these people to admit it- its literally made up through the contemporary bias of people with boring churches.

 

[PureX]

I find it interesting that you can so clearly define that a person holding a bible, believing it is words from God, is blatant idolatry; but balk on whether any of the other pics or descriptions is idolatry.
Cause they certainly seem to think that there is something supernaturally special about their statues.

I have no idea what they're thinking about those statues. And neither do you. But I doubt that most of them consider those statues to be the embodiment of their God. As many, here, believe of the Bible.

They treat them as if they are pure gold to be preserved, adorned, protected.
And when anything bad happens to one of these statues, they go into a frenzy of sorrow as if it was an attack on God Himself.

Yes, people get protective of the trappings of their religions. But that doesn't necessarily mean they are confusing those trappings with their God. Some probably do, but I think it's more about cultural self-identification; like Christians and their need to push images representing their beliefs into public places. It's an ego thing: "look at us! See how Christian we are!" And then when someone objects, these Christians react as if they were personally being attacked. (Because they identify themselves with their religious symbols and images.) But that, in itself, is not idolatry. It's close to it, but not it, yet.

 

[Cruciform]

Isn't prayer the same thing as worship?

No, it isn't.

 

[Cruciform]

Invoking dead saints? You're the one praying.
Whom do you want your prayer to reach?

When you ask fellow Christians to pray for you, whom do you want your prayer to reach? Likewise with asking past Saints to pray for us. See THIS.

 

[Cruciform]

No sir. It's because it looks just like this:

Your naive guilt-by-association argument is noted.

 

[Cruciform]

then what do you do when you pray to a saint?

Already answered in the source cited in Post #84 above.

 

[Cruciform]

I wasn't asking if it was worship.. I was just asking what is the purpose or how does one pray to a saint. i genuinely don't know as i have never looked into it or have done it even once. How does it differ from that you would to god

First, consider this:

When Catholics say they are “praying” to God and “praying” to saints they are talking about qualitatively different things as different as a monkey is from a man. The Protestant generally only has one species in mind when he thinks of prayer—prayer to God that necessarily includes adoration. But one need only pick up a dictionary to discover there are in truth different definitions and therefore different usages of the same word, “prayer,” in English.

Prayer:

The act or practice of praying.
1.An earnest request; entreaty; supplication
2.(a) humble entreaty addressed to God, to a god, etc.: (b) a request made to God, etc.; as, her prayer for his safe return; (c) any set formula for praying, as to God.

Prayer is not, by definition, necessarily equal to the adoration that is due God alone. Prayer can certainly involve an act of adoration when it is directed to God, but the term does not necessarily denote adoration. It can simply mean “a request.”​

http://www.timstaples.com/?p=blog&id=117​

And that is exactly what the term "pray" means with respect to "praying" to past Saints. It simply means requesting or asking past Saints to pray for us, just as we would ask our fellow Christians at Church to pray for us.

 

[Wick Stick]

The splitting hairs over the definition of what an idol is or what constitutes worship of an idol is dumb.

Check the actual text of the ten commandments. Deuteronomy 5:8-9. It doesn't just prohibit idolatry. It calls for full-on iconoclasm.

 

[PureX]

I wasn't asking if it was worship.. I was just asking what is the purpose or how does one pray to a saint. i genuinely don't know as i have never looked into it or have done it even once. How does it differ from that you would to god

Specific saints are believed to have experienced both suffering, and God, in a specific and significant way. Believers who feel they are experiencing God in a similar way, or who feel they are experiencing human suffering in a similar way as that saint, will often pray to God before an image of that saint because they feel a kinship with the experience of that particular saint.

This doesn't mean they are praying TO THAT SAINT, however.

Also, some people do pray to that particular saint believing that because that saint suffered in a similar way as themselves, and because that saint found favor with God for that suffering, that maybe that saint can aid their prayers into God's ears, so to speak. They believe the saint can 'intercede' on their behalf, with God, regarding their particular suffering.

But even this, I do not think is 'idolatry', as they are only praying to the saint's spirit to intercede on their behalf, with God. The prayer is still intended for God, not the saint, even if it's being presented to God by the saint's spirit. (It's kind of weird and complicated, I know, but it's not 'idolatry', per se.)

True idolatry happens when the "stand-in", whether it's a statue, a saint, a book, or whatever else, becomes the embodiment of God (or God's mind/spirit) in the mind the believer.