ECT I Corinthians 3:17

[nikolai_42]

He is coming against immorality, as I explained. He called some of them "still carnal."

Just because someone or something is carnal, doesn't mean it implies immorality.

And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Hebrews 7:15-16

Carnality simply means wordly...fleshly...at times even temporally. It is simply the contrast with spiritual and does not always mean immoral (directly).

For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
Romans 15:26-27

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 7:14

If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
I Corinthians 9:11

So if these are clearly showing a simple contrast between carnal and spiritual (where carnal need not imply immoral), see what Paul does in I Cor 3:

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
I Corinthians 3:1-4

The carnality Paul was talking about in I Corinthians 3 was not to do with immorality - but rather with immaturity and natural passions and carnal thinking.

Whatever is immoral under the new covenant defiles the temple. There is no point limiting defilement to sexual immorality, even if you believe Paul was only writing of sexual immorality in that chapter.

I don't believe he was writing about sexual immorality in chapter 3. But I believe he was in chapter 6.

 

[elohiym]

And Paul doesn't say "Ye are the temples of God". There has to be some grammatical agreement and in this case, corporate body as where God dwells seems to be the implication (grammatically, at least). But the justification for "ye" is something I haven't seen - hoping someone can provide that.

"Do you not know that you (ἐστε) are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you (ὑμῖν)?"

Is the highlighted personal pronoun second person singular?

When I read 1 Corinthians 3:16, I get the impression he's addressing whatever individual that shoe fit. We know from the entire epistle that not all the Corinthians were still carnal, so he wasn't asking all of them that question. Does that make sense?

 

[nikolai_42]

"Do you not know that you (ἐστε) are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you (ὑμῖν)?"

Is the highlighted personal pronoun second person singular?

When I read 1 Corinthians 3:16, I get the impression he's addressing whatever individual that shoe fit. We know from the entire epistle that not all the Corinthians were still carnal, so he wasn't asking all of them that question. Does that make sense?

I need to think about this a bit more. I think (!) I've seen a rendering of this where the terminating you is replaced with "all of you". But that may be my memory playing tricks on me....

 

[elohiym]

He is coming against immorality, as I explained. He called some of them "still carnal."

Just because someone or something is carnal, doesn't mean it implies immorality.

He means immorality when he uses the word carnal in the third chapter of first Corinthians. See Galatians 5:19-21 where Paul lists envying and strife as immorality that will keep people from inheriting the kingdom of God. In the third chapter of first Corinthians, Paul tells some of them that they are not spiritual but still carnal, rebuking them for envying and strife. He appeals to each of them as individuals when he asks the question: "Do you not know that you (ἐστε) are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you (ὑμῖν)?"

 

[nikolai_42]

He means immorality when he uses the word carnal in the third chapter of first Corinthians. See Galatians 5:19-21 where Paul lists envying and strife as immorality that will keep people from inheriting the kingdom of God. In the third chapter of first Corinthians, Paul tells some of them that they are not spiritual but still carnal, rebuking them for envying and strife. He appeals to each of them as individuals when he asks the question: "Do you not know that you (ἐστε) are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you (ὑμῖν)?"

But it isn't the same context as Chapter 6.

Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
I Corinthians 6:18

That which is in I Corinthians 3 is "without the body". Chapter 6 is dealing with a special class of sin.

 

[elohiym]

That which is in I Corinthians 3 is "without the body". Chapter 6 is dealing with a special class of sin.

In what class does murder fit, in your view?

 

[elohiym]

Chapter 6 is dealing with a special class of sin.

Perhaps not in the sense you imagine, if you are interpreting the word fornication too narrowly and differently than Paul meant. When I read the word, I get the impression of religious prostitutes like the false priests and ministers that defile the idea of Christianity. As I understand it, whatever sin they commit is fornication; the special class is not act specific.

 

[nikolai_42]

In what class does murder fit, in your view?

In terms of I Cor 6, it is not the same class. One who commits fornication joins himself with another. This union is (in some sense) acting as a replacement for the proper union of man and wife and - immediate to the spiritual context - man with God. It hearkens back to the primary reason Israel was so severely punished by God - she joined herself to idols (e.g. Hosea 4:17). The spiritual fornication and adultery is sometimes graphically depicted by the prophets. And in Ezekiel 8 you see the description of what is going on in the temple. While it may or may not be a literal description, it is this idolatry in the inmost places that brought God to forsake the temple then. Paul, as I see it, is carrying this forward.

 

[nikolai_42]

Hi , and here is a better translation of 1 Cor 3:16 , Don't you know that you are God's INNER SANCTUARY , and the SPIRIT of God DWELLS in you ??

#1 , The verb tense " KNOW YE / EIDO " is in the Greek Perfect Tense , ACTIVE VOICE and in the Indicative Mood .

It means that from the writing of salvation UNTIL you die . you can know that we are God's Sanctuary forever !

The Active Voice means that the Subject , the Holy Spirit is the one producing the Action of the Prefect Tense !

The Indicative Mood means it is a FACT .


#2 , The second verb , " YE ARE /ESTE " is in the CONTINUOUS ACTION that we are ALWAYS in God's SANCTUARY .

The third verb tense " DWELLETH /OIKEO " is also in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and just means we ARE ALWAYS being Dwelleth by the Holy SPIRIT !

DAN P

So is it always individual or corporate? Or can it be (in some sense) both?

 

[elohiym]

In what class does murder fit, in your view?

In terms of I Cor 6, it is not the same class.

If I murder my wife, is it a sin against my own body?

 

[elohiym]

One who commits fornication joins himself with another.

In Paul's view, any sin you commit would be joining you to someone other than Christ (Ro 6:16).

 

[nikolai_42]

If I murder my wife, is it a sin against my own body?

Not in the same sense...no.

 

[nikolai_42]

In Paul's view, any sin you commit would be joining you to someone other than Christ (Ro 6:16).

Not joining yourselves to them...serving them. There is a difference. Otherwise, it should be wrong for a believer to (in any sense) serve an unbeliever.

 

[elohiym]

Not in the same sense...no.

It seems illogical that I could sleep with a prostitute and sin against my own body but not against wife with whom I share one flesh. Furthermore, it seems illogical that I could murder my own flesh but not sin against my own body. I think you should reconsider your interpretation of what Paul meant by fornication in 1 Corinthians 6.

 

[elohiym]

Not joining yourselves to them...serving them. There is a difference. Otherwise, it should be wrong for a believer to (in any sense) serve an unbeliever.

Whoever sins is a slave to sin and a child of the devil (1Jn 3:6-10). If one imagines they are in Christ while in reality they are dead in sin, still sinning, they are committing fornication with every sin they indulge, sexual or not.

 

[nikolai_42]

It seems illogical that I could sleep with a prostitute and sin against my own body but not against wife with whom I share one flesh. Furthermore, it seems illogical that I could murder my own flesh but not sin against my own body. I think you should reconsider your interpretation of what Paul meant by fornication in 1 Corinthians 6.

Fornication has a very clear connotation that is not included in things like murder etc... He said all other sins are without the body.

As to the first part of your response, the point is that all sin is ultimately against God

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psalm 51:4

 

[Word based mystic]

Your observation is accurate.

Ye is plural. The temple is the body of Christ which has many members.

i think the quote goes a bit different which puts a different inference to what you have proposed.

For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For [j]by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body,

Christ is the Body we are all baptized in.

the temple which we are individually houses the Holy Spirit.

we cannot defile Christ or His body. However we can defile a temple by willfully sinning.

the temple does not seem to be the BODY OF CHRIST.
of course i stand to be corrected.

 

[elohiym]

Fornication has a very clear connotation that is not included in things like murder etc... He said all other sins are without the body.

Haven't I already proven that murder can be a sin against your own body? Whatever sin I commit against my wife is a sin against my own body.

...all sin is ultimately against God...

Seems to bolster my argument.

 

[nikolai_42]

Haven't I already proven that murder can be a sin against your own body? Whatever sin I commit against my wife is a sin against my own body.

Seems to bolster my argument.

I'm simply taking Paul's own statement and applying it. Joining to a harlot is not the same thing as any other sin and is only seen in the spiritual analog of idolatry. Man cannot serve two masters.