ECT How is Paul's message different?

[Tambora]

You can't hide from what you have said, GT.

 

[Tambora]

You will try to bury it, but you can't.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I'm not the doom speaker I am the love speaker.

You seem to have a 'frayed wire' on that speaker?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

That doesn't matter as much as mt 3:16, but then these are D'ists reading the Bible which means it will come out inside down.

It appears as if your 'wit' is as dull as your intellect.

 

[God's Truth]

You seem to have a 'frayed wire' on that speaker?

Not all can hear.

 

[Interplanner]

It appears as if your 'wit' is as dull as your intellect.

Really? I don't care to get involved, but what did Jesus come up out of after baptism?

 

[Interplanner]

It does for the one saying it.
Either they can back it up or be shown as a fraud.

You have to deal with Judaism as it was practiced in post-exile Judea. That is the stage and characters on which the NT takes place.

 

[Interplanner]

Still not a single verse from the OT telling of anyone having a full on bath for the remission of sin and calling it baptism.
Why on earth would you say that baptism as a full on bath for the remission of sin was a ritual of the OT law, but unable to back it up by posting a verse from the OT that says that?
Because you just like to flap your jaw without thinking through what you say ....... again.

The NT meaning is based on what JohnB did, which was had people 'buried' in water and brought back up, like Mt 3:16. For all those who doubt that the gospel narratives knew of death and resurrection before hand, this is an indirect proof that John was already proclaiming it, because he already knew that the Lamb of God would perish and be raised, too. On these things the D'ists here are about 3 steps behind.

 

[musterion]

The NT meaning is based on what JohnB did, which was had people 'buried' in water and brought back up, like Mt 3:16.

Christ didn't die, literally or figuratively or symbolically, at His baptism by John. You are a filthy liar.

 

[God's Truth]

But Peter says of their receiving the Holy Spirit that is was like "us" at the beginning. Who received it like Cornelius at the beginning?

Pentecost was the beginning.
Acts 1:1 In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen. 3 He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.4 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”


Who did the Holy Spirit fall on at Pentecost?
Acts 2:1 When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.

Those who believed Peter, how did they get the Holy Spirit?
Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

They received the Holy Spirit by doing right and fearing God.

 

[Tambora]

You have to deal with Judaism as it was practiced in post-exile Judea. That is the stage and characters on which the NT takes place.

No, you have to deal with scripture.
And neither you, nor her, have posted a scripture from the OT about any full on bath done for the remission of sin called a baptism.
If you want to coddle her assertion that the baptism ritual in the OT was a full on bath, then you are foolish too.
Why would you want to coddle her stupid statement???

 

[whitestone]

If you think I said the Holy Spirit is weak, I apologize for not doing a better job of getting my points across. I will try and do a better job but if you don’t want to continue to discuss, I understand. I will summarize the way I currently see things.

What I believe is the old law was fulfilled and nailed to the cross. The new covenant then started after Jesus's DBR and that is when one new body was formed for Jew and Gentile, the church.
Eph. 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

The 12 were told to proclaim the gospel to the world, not just the Jews. Even though we don't see them going to the whole world, that doesn't nullify the meaning of what Jesus said. What they were proclaiming was for the whole world.

When Jesus sent the 12 out before his DBR, did they save anyone by their preaching? Not that I read in scripture. If you know of a passage, please share it. On Pentecost their preaching saved 3,000 souls, what changed?

What I see the 12 doing in Jerusalem is the same thing Paul did in similar situations. They appeared as Jews to reach Jews and bring them to maturity. If they denounced Moses and the old law, the Jews would shut their ears. They need knowledge. Paul could have done exactly that when he got to Jerusalem but we do not see him doing that. It’s obvious to me, based on Paul at times observing the old law and his comments, that denouncing or violating the law is not always the best way to handle Jews in some situations.

As far as the letter. What is your take on the apostles bringing those things from the old law and applying it to the Gentile converts?

lol, I appreciate the offer to discontinue the discussion at my discretion and if I chose to in the future I will redeem the coupon...

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/21.htm was Paul urged to "not go to" Jerusalem? lol, my take on it is they reduced it down to four things from the OT.

 

[turbosixx]

They received the Holy Spirit by doing right and fearing God.

Peter is the one who refers back to the beginning, not me. Wouldn’t it be wise if we want to fully understand what he is talking about to go back to the beginning? This is 8-10 years after Pentecost and many many more converts.
Acts 5:14 And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,
6:7 And the word of God continued to increase, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.
8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

After all these converts Peter says the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit like “us” at the beginning. Why does he say that? Because he hadn’t seen it since the beginning. When we go back to Pentecost, we see two groups receiving the Holy Spirit that day. Each one in a different way. The apostles directly from God and evident by speaking in tongues and then those who believed Peter. Peter tells them repent and be baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[turbosixx]

lol, I appreciate the offer to discontinue the discussion at my discretion and if I chose to in the future I will redeem the coupon...

LOL

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/21.htm was Paul urged to "not go to" Jerusalem?

Absolutely

 

[Interplanner]

Peter is the one who refers back to the beginning, not me. Wouldn’t it be wise if we want to fully understand what he is talking about to go back to the beginning? This is 8-10 years after Pentecost and many many more converts.
Acts 5:14 And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,
6:7 And the word of God continued to increase, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.
8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

After all these converts Peter says the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit like “us” at the beginning. Why does he say that? Because he hadn’t seen it since the beginning. When we go back to Pentecost, we see two groups receiving the Holy Spirit that day. Each one in a different way. The apostles directly from God and evident by speaking in tongues and then those who believed Peter. Peter tells them repent and be baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

When we go back to Pentecost, we see two groups receiving the Holy Spirit that day. Each one in a different way.

???

Speak for yourself. What is it about D'ists trying to divide a coherent picture in to two parts all day long?

The arrival of the tongues was a special sign to Israel that God really had brought Messiah and his message, I Cor 14:21. That is how the mission is launched, with overwhelming signs and wonders. That is why I cannot understand the people here at TOL who react so strongly to the centerplace of the mission. No other effort or thrust gets this special treatment. Instead, they keep searching the modern horizon for some special sign and wonder about another age of Judaism to get started...

 

[Interplanner]

No, you have to deal with scripture.
And neither you, nor her, have posted a scripture from the OT about any full on bath done for the remission of sin called a baptism.
If you want to coddle her assertion that the baptism ritual in the OT was a full on bath, then you are foolish too.
Why would you want to coddle her stupid statement???

I did show several passages that are built on what post-exile Judaism was doing, not direct OT passages. That's the point: that the NT is making use of what 1st century Pharisee Judaism was attempting but which lacked any reality--until John came. You don't know what you are talking about and are pompous.

You have to know why Qumran and Masada had their ritual pools. I believe there was also one at the temple. the main indicator is Mt 3:16, just quoted about 5 times in exchanges here (I don't know what you are reading but it seems to be neither the Bible nor TOL) and you have to answer for yourself: what did Jesus come up out of in Mt 3:16?

 

[Interplanner]

Christ didn't die, literally or figuratively or symbolically, at His baptism by John. You are a filthy liar.

But it was exactly described that way when Christians did their baptisms. What else does the verb 'came up out of' mean in Mt 3:16? What does 'Destroy this temple and I will raise it up in 3 days' mean if not to come up out of death?

D'ist use of the NT is fundamentally flawed wherever you look.

 

[Interplanner]

Christ didn't die, literally or figuratively or symbolically, at His baptism by John. You are a filthy liar.

Just listen to how radically John refers to sin. Sounds to me like dying to it!!! And Jesus said it was necessary for himself to be baptised by John, 'to fulfill all righteousness.' Jesus was baptized for us you know, like everything else he did. It was God already dealing with our sins.

But in D'ism, Jesus is a conquering zealot who was supposed to set up the race as the government of the world, if the Jews would accept that. So no wonder this baptismal death makes no sense. They are always on another page.

 

[john w]

The NT meaning is based on what JohnB did, which was had people 'buried' in water and brought back up, like Mt 3:16. For all those who doubt that the gospel narratives knew of death and resurrection before hand, this is an indirect proof that John was already proclaiming it, because he already knew that the Lamb of God would perish and be raised, too. On these things the D'ists here are about 3 steps behind.

You made that "buried in water" up, you biblical idiot, fraud. No one was buried in water. The Lord Jesus Christ was not buried in a liquid grave, but in rocks, and buried when dead. In contrast, the "dry baptismal" candidate is buried as soon as he has received life.

You're a clown-even you know it.



" Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." Colossians 2:12 KJV

Buried with Him-not like Him.


" Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: {6} Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:3-6 KJV

 

[turbosixx]

When we go back to Pentecost, we see two groups receiving the Holy Spirit that day. Each one in a different way.

???

Speak for yourself. What is it about D'ists trying to divide a coherent picture in to two parts all day long?

The arrival of the tongues was a special sign to Israel that God really had brought Messiah and his message, I Cor 14:21. That is how the mission is launched, with overwhelming signs and wonders. That is why I cannot understand the people here at TOL who react so strongly to the centerplace of the mission. No other effort or thrust gets this special treatment. Instead, they keep searching the modern horizon for some special sign and wonder about another age of Judaism to get started...

I take it you don't agree with what I posted. Could you please be more specific?