God's Truth
New member
The 'us' are the Jews.
ECT How is Paul's message different?
- Thread starter Clete
- Start date
The 'us' are the Jews.
Interplanner
Well-known member
From RD,
Jesus was a minister of the circumcision when He was in Israel. The water baptism that He commanded the twelve apostles for the twelve tribes had to do with Israel and their priesthood to the nations.
Note that Jesus' command to baptize was "in the name of" the Father AND of the Son AND of the Holy Ghost. They ALL has the SAME "name" and the SAME authority. Matthew 28:19
Artificial. Just look at Mt 8 how soon he shows interest in the Gentiles--minutes after the SonM. D'ism has a knack for the poorest observations.
Distinctions like RD's are nowhere in the NT self-organizing summaries, but D'ism thinks it knows better and writes better summaries. ON this one just see Lk 24. You can't go through Lk 24 and be D'ist.
Jesus was a minister of the circumcision when He was in Israel. The water baptism that He commanded the twelve apostles for the twelve tribes had to do with Israel and their priesthood to the nations.
Note that Jesus' command to baptize was "in the name of" the Father AND of the Son AND of the Holy Ghost. They ALL has the SAME "name" and the SAME authority. Matthew 28:19
Artificial. Just look at Mt 8 how soon he shows interest in the Gentiles--minutes after the SonM. D'ism has a knack for the poorest observations.
Distinctions like RD's are nowhere in the NT self-organizing summaries, but D'ism thinks it knows better and writes better summaries. ON this one just see Lk 24. You can't go through Lk 24 and be D'ist.
turbosixx
New member
Pentecost was the beginning.
Acts 1:1 In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen. 3 He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.4 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Who did the Holy Spirit fall on at Pentecost?
Acts 2:1 When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.
Those who believed Peter, how did they get the Holy Spirit?
Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The primary meaning of the Greek word translated "baptism" is "immersion, submersion" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
To speak of a sprinkling of water as a baptism defies common sense.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You provide no evidence, as usual.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You quote many verses from the OT which you think are referring to baptism but not even one of them is called a baptism.
Why not, sonny boy?
Right Divider
Body part
You sure do worship those lexicons and dictionaries.
So you believe that Christ was "immersed" or "submerged" into death?
Matt 20:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.
(20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.
And you believe that being "baptized into Christ" is being "immersed" into Him?
The doctrine of baptisms spoken of in Hebrews 6:2 refers to those SPRINKLINGS of the OT law.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I'm not anti-scholarship like you.
Yes, He was immersed into the the afflictions and sufferings to which He voluntarily submitted on the Cross.
Do you think that He was merely sprinkled into those sufferings?
That is a different Greek word which doesn't mean immersed or submerged.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You are blind as a bat because I did answer.
Interplanner
Well-known member
That's not as direct as it could be. Justification from sins (ie the fixing of the 'lost' problem) is to be had upon realizing God was in Christ for your sins. God does not give us questions about the acts of the Spirit first, but about how a person can be justified from their sins.
Interplanner
Well-known member
It can be more helpful to watch JohnB or Col 2's expressions. The people went out to the river, into the river, and came back out. the clearest of course is Mt 3:16. That was the usual procedure.
In Col 2, there is detail about the early Christian ceremony. We know that there were new clothes to wear afterwards, and there is even some indication that this was much less private than we would tolerate today. The person took off old clothes ('putting off' in v11 is that verb) and is given new ones when they came out of the water.
The 'buried with him in baptism' means they were underwater (the grammatical voice is passive; someone else was there burying them; as is the raising). But for some reason, Col 2 does not put clothes back on the person, as does Gal 3:27 or Eph 4:20+ which takes off and puts on clothes, yet fails to mention baptism. In Col 2, The person comes up out of water like Christ out of the grave.
There is not much information to go on.
re other 1st century Judaism, we know that as scant as water was at Qumran, they had a cleansing pool separate from the water supply. The members went into the water; it was not cupped or hand-scooped out. Likewise on top of Masada.
Last edited:
lifeisgood
New member
Nonsense!
Catch that deception, TOL audience? My brilliant exposition, vs. this kindergarten spam, sophistry, from this clown. That's this confused old man's best shot.
Show us where the scriptures are called "the bible," deceiver.
Show us where the catching away is called "rapture," you punk.
Show us where Paul ever calls saints "born again."
Go ahead, you troll.
Go on record, punk, and assert, to all of TOL, that the concept of "baptism" is a "New Testament" "ordinance," "'doctrine," nowhere to be found in the OT. Go ahead, Nicky.
And, while you are at it, explain:
1.
James 4:5 KJV
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
Where in the OT, is this " The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?"
Show us a verse OT which you think are referring to this James 4:5 verse.
2.Matthew 3 KJV
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Go ahead, engager in sophistry, and deceit, and lay it out, as to why the Lord Jesus Christ submitted to this "baptism," which, according to you, on record, has no basis in the OT.
Go ahead, confused old man bible rejector/corrector. And give us your expounding, instead of quoting the men you worship.
3. 1 Peter 3 KJV
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Go ahead and delete the above passage, and spin it, old man, to "prove" that the concepts of divers washings, sprinklings, in the OT, were not "baptisms" in the NT, and that the concept of "baptism" is a NT doctrine, never before heard of, 'new," until John the B came. Go ahead.
4."verses from the OT which you think are referring to baptism but not even one of them is called a baptism."-Nicky Shugart
Show us any verse from the OT you think are referring to "propitiation," but not even one of them is called "propitiation."
So, deceiving old man, go on record, and assert that the concept of "propitiation," is a NT doctrine, nowhere to be found, in the OT.Go ahead.
Romans 3:25 KJV
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
1 John 2:2 KJV
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 4:10 KJV
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Show us.
And, go on record, and assert that the concept of "resurrection," is a NT doctrine, nowhere to be found, in the OT. Go ahead, Shugart. Show us the word "resurrection" in the OT.You may quote many verses from the OT which you think are referring to "resurrection," but not even one of them is called a resurrection.
Show us the word "resurrection" in the OT, Shugart.
Fold, you confused old man, who will resort to almost anything, to "prove" how smart he is, and others are wrong.
Last edited:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Sonny boy speaks of people getting re-water baptized but he is confused as usual. When I asked him to provide the Scriptures which speak of such an outrageous idea he provided nothing!
lifeisgood
New member
When were YOUR sins forgiven, turbosixx? When you heard the Gospel of Salvation or when you were formally dunked in the water?
If you can answer that to yourself, you will stop fighting with the word of God.
lifeisgood
New member
That they believed that Jesus was the promised Redeemer.
Water baptism was a sign for the Jews.
If you do not know that you need to go back to water baptism 101 class.
God's Truth
New member
Go on more, tell me more how you think you disproved me.
God's Truth
New member
The Gentile Cornelius and his whole household of Gentiles received were already God fearing and doing right (as is required to be saved) and received because they now believed that Jesus cleans them of their sins and puts them in God.
Catch that deception, TOL audience. The deceiver asserts:
Show us where the scriptures are called "the bible," deceiver.
Show us where the catching away is called "rapture," you punk.
Show us where Paul ever calls saints "born again."
Go ahead, you troll.
Go on record, punk, and assert, to all of TOL, that the concept of "baptism" is a "New Testament" "ordinance," "'doctrine," nowhere to be found in the OT. Go ahead, Nicky.
And, while you are at it, explain:
1.
James 4:5 KJV
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
Where in the OT, is this " The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?"
Show us a verse OT which you think are referring to this James 4:5 verse.
2.Matthew 3 KJV
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Go ahead, engager in sophistry, and deceit, and lay it out, as to why the Lord Jesus Christ submitted to this "baptism," which, according to you, on record, has no basis in the OT.
Go ahead, confused old man bible rejector/corrector. And give us your expounding, instead of quoting the men you worship.
3. 1 Peter 3 KJV
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Go ahead and delete the above passage, and spin it, old man, to "prove" that the concepts of divers washings, sprinklings, in the OT, were not "baptisms" in the NT, and that the concept of "baptism" is a NT doctrine, never before heard of, 'new," until John the B came. Go ahead.
4."verses from the OT which you think are referring to baptism but not even one of them is called a baptism."-Nicky Shugart
Show us any verse from the OT you think are referring to "propitiation," but not even one of them is called "propitiation."
So, deceiving old man, go on record, and assert that the concept of "propitiation," is a NT doctrine, nowhere to be found, in the OT.Go ahead.
Romans 3:25 KJV
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
1 John 2:2 KJV
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 4:10 KJV
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Show us.
And, go on record, and assert that the concept of "resurrection," is a NT doctrine, nowhere to be found, in the OT. Go ahead, Shugart. Show us the word "resurrection" in the OT.You may quote many verses from the OT which you think are referring to "resurrection," but not even one of them is called a resurrection.
Show us the word "resurrection" in the OT, Shugart.
Fold, you confused old man, who will resort to almost anything, to "prove" how smart he is, and others are wrong.