How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

[clefty]

lots of conjecture lots of garbage

spiritually dead = spiritually separated from God

Mat_8:22 And Jesus said to him, “Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead.”

What does that have to do with living eternally or being immortal...He is Life apart Him is nothingness annihilation...yet you insist apart from Him there remains life...burials, requests for drops of water, torment, trips “up top” to make appearances to any who calls and answer questions of even those abandoned by Yah Himself...

Dont forget the cute gifs in your “Way 2 Go” bible...any word on its publication yet? Maybe when you are dead?

 

[iouae]

What does that have to do with living eternally or being immortal...He is Life apart Him is nothingness annihilation...yet you insist apart from Him there remains life...burials, requests for drops of water, torment, trips “up top” to make appearances to any who calls and answer questions of even those abandoned by Yah Himself...

Dont forget the cute gifs in your “Way 2 Go” bible...any word on its publication yet? Maybe when you are dead?

Way to go is a lost cause, as I said about 30 posts ago. I am leaving him to his garbage. This thread is in Bosomville.

 

[clefty]

Way to go is a lost cause, as I said about 30 posts ago.

yeah I saw that...ha

I am leaving him to his garbage.

and garbage trucks

This thread is in Bosomville.

lol...expect his own modern translation of the Bible saying everything he wishes said arriving here any minute now

or at least from him beyond the grave...

 

[iouae]

yeah I saw that...ha

and garbage trucks

lol...expect his own modern translation of the Bible saying everything he wishes said arriving here any minute now

or at least from him beyond the grave...

But he will still be quoting Luke 16 and "Samuel" in THE WAY to go version of his Bible. I plan to let him have the last word/quote, so that he can feel good about himself.

 

[clefty]

But he will still be quoting Luke 16 and "Samuel" in THE WAY to go version of his Bible. I plan to let him have the last word/quote, so that he can feel good about himself.

Ha

actually I think in “the way 2 go” bible Samuel actually makes a cameo in the rich man and lazarus story...he challenges abraham’s teaching that people are not convinced by one raised from the dead...and proves it to Abraham by rising up and appearing to the rich man’s 5 brothers and warning them to change their ways...

And that is why we havent heard of them joining the rich man in his torment...

 

[iouae]

Ha

actually I think in “the way 2 go” bible Samuel actually makes a cameo in the rich man and lazarus story...he challenges abraham’s teaching that people are not convinced by one raised from the dead...and proves it to Abraham by rising up and appearing to the rich man’s 5 brothers and warning them to change their ways...

And that is why we havent heard of them joining the rich man in his torment...

Good point about the rich man's brothers.

Which got me thinking about why hell is such a lonely place, with only one rich man there. Not one other soul about. It seems everyone is saved, except one very rich man who DID feed Lazarus the scraps under his table, and did not mind accommodating Lazarus, albeit, with his dogs. That has to say something for the rich man surely? How many folks here on TOL have beggars scavenging scraps under their tables? I bet way-to-go has a dustbin for his scraps, not a beggar

Is God's standard so low that only one man makes it to hell? And the fault of this man is that he is rich, not evil.

It would be strange if this story were true, and not a parable. IMO parables make one point, and one point only. This parable is making the point that the first now (rich) will be last then (in the judgement) and the last now (Lazarus) will be first then. All the rest is bulk filler.

 

[clefty]

Good point about the rich man's brothers.

Which got me thinking about why hell is such a lonely place, with only one rich man there. Not one other soul about. It seems everyone is saved, except one very rich man who DID feed Lazarus the scraps under his table, and did not mind accommodating Lazarus, albeit, with his dogs. That has to say something for the rich man surely? How many folks here on TOL have beggars scavenging scraps under their tables? I bet way-to-go has a dustbin for his scraps, not a beggar

Is God's standard so low that only one man makes it to hell? And the fault of this man is that he is rich, not evil.

It would be strange if this story were true, and not a parable. IMO parables make one point, and one point only. This parable is making the point that the first now (rich) will be last then (in the judgement) and the last now (Lazarus) will be first then. All the rest is bulk filler.

The fact that His parables all made sense and were simple basic realistic believable events: women loses coin, servent hides 1 talent, man on road to Jericho...all of which are readily understood their point clearly made but here we have Him using another story that frankly does have a lot of holes in it...lonely rich man sees Abraham and as a rich man requests merely a drop of water? SERIOUSLY?

He uses this story to teach about forgiving the offending EVERY TIME they repent...obviously this rich man did NOT forgive the offending beggar at this door...

It was never intending to teach His belief in Bosomville...

 

[iouae]

The fact that His parables all made sense and were simple basic realistic believable events: women loses coin, servent hides 1 talent, man on road to Jericho...all of which are readily understood their point clearly made but here we have Him using another story that frankly does have a lot of holes in it...lonely rich man sees Abraham and as a rich man requests merely a drop of water? SERIOUSLY?

He uses this story to teach about forgiving the offending EVERY TIME they repent...obviously this rich man did NOT forgive the offending beggar at this door...

It was never intending to teach His belief in Bosomville...

I think this verse worries me most about the Luke 16 parable...
Luk 16:25
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

This would put most tele-evangelists, most of the Western world, all the rich folks in a condemned state.

This is just not what causes us to lose eternal life. And being a poor beggar does not gain us eternal life either.

Thus we go back to what I always say about parables - they make one point only. The point here is that MANY of the first now (the rich and famous, world rulers) will be last, and many of the despised now, viz. God's believers, will be first.

Apart from that, the scenario in hell is not far from how I believe it will play out after the Millennium.

The condemned, mortal humans will be resurrected, judged, and condemned. Then they will wait for the lake of fire to burn them up, thus providing closure and justice. It will be nearly instant death. This is what is called the "second death". The rich man in this parable has been resurrected, judged, condemned, and awaits the approaching fire which will destroy him.

Once earth is cauterised, New Jerusalem will descend as the bride of Christ, on the now purified world.

I know you don't see it this way. I am interested why you do not see the incorrigibly wicked being resurrected, judged, and burnt UP so that their smoke rises forever.

 

[clefty]

I think this verse worries me most about the Luke 16 parable...
Luk 16:25
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

This would put most tele-evangelists, most of the Western world, all the rich folks in a condemned state.

This is just not what causes us to lose eternal life. And being a poor beggar does not gain us eternal life either.

Thus we go back to what I always say about parables - they make one point only. The point here is that MANY of the first now (the rich and famous, world rulers) will be last, and many of the despised now, viz. God's believers, will be first.

you are not alone with this...this is why this folktale was so popular as since ancient times those who dont have much covet those that do...and make up stories about the rich getting justice later...there is however something to that as the caution about the rich having difficulty making it through the eye of a needle or something like that...the early christian church lived much more communally and without pursuit for financial gain...Marx understood how that works and exploited the natural tendencies of man to keep his brother...and he then designed it as for the state to keep you...that system turns tyrannical quickly as it is not rooted in His love but love of power priveledge etc

Apart from that, the scenario in hell is not far from how I believe it will play out after the Millennium.

The condemned, mortal humans will be resurrected, judged, and condemned. Then they will wait for the lake of fire to burn them up, thus providing closure and justice. It will be nearly instant death. This is what is called the "second death". The rich man in this parable has been resurrected, judged, condemned, and awaits the approaching fire which will destroy him.

Once earth is cauterised, New Jerusalem will descend as the bride of Christ, on the now purified world.

you wish to ascribe this Marxist folk tale end time relevance when it merely is and for cathartic purposes a man made tradition...an allegory

It might fit your end time scenerio but again Bosomville is not intended to be a documentary...He didnt even use it for that but to teach on forgiving daily offenses like coming out your palace door to a bunch of beggars waiting there to beg from you...the rich man has been associated with the pharisees and the beggars have even been associated as being those without the Torah...gentiles...

I know you don't see it this way.

your attempting to link bosomville with end times is what I dismiss not your endtime scenerio...which is more scriptural than what I have seen around here

I am interested why you do not see the incorrigibly wicked being resurrected, judged, and burnt UP so that their smoke rises forever.

again I see less issue with your endtime than with you having it describe an actual scenerio during it...

BTW for smoke to “rises forever” means it would have to NOT dissipate and rise above the gravitational pull

Death and hell are indeed burned...burnt up...annihilated...in the lake of fire an allegory...just like sins and offending ones caste into the sea...

The new earth however will be physical and we will have physical bodies with which to eat from the tree of life...when on earth it is as it is in heaven...restored to Eden...

 

[clefty]

I think this verse worries me most about the Luke 16 parable...
Luk 16:25
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

This would put most tele-evangelists, most of the Western world, all the rich folks in a condemned state.

This is just not what causes us to lose eternal life. And being a poor beggar does not gain us eternal life either.

Thus we go back to what I always say about parables - they make one point only. The point here is that MANY of the first now (the rich and famous, world rulers) will be last, and many of the despised now, viz. God's believers, will be first.

Apart from that, the scenario in hell is not far from how I believe it will play out after the Millennium.

The condemned, mortal humans will be resurrected, judged, and condemned. Then they will wait for the lake of fire to burn them up, thus providing closure and justice. It will be nearly instant death. This is what is called the "second death". The rich man in this parable has been resurrected, judged, condemned, and awaits the approaching fire which will destroy him.

Once earth is cauterised, New Jerusalem will descend as the bride of Christ, on the now purified world.

I know you don't see it this way. I am interested why you do not see the incorrigibly wicked being resurrected, judged, and burnt UP so that their smoke rises forever.

All this aside looks like more than baboons are getting culled:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5443599/White-South-African-farmers-removed-land.html

 

[iouae]

Clefty, if you do not mind me asking, what happens, in your scenario, to the incorrigibly wicked.

I vaguely remember you saying there would be no point in God resurrecting them to burn them up.
I think you believe they are simply not resurrected again. In other words, its finished already for them.

I hope I am not misrepresenting you.

 

[clefty]

Clefty, if you do not mind me asking, what happens, in your scenario, to the incorrigibly wicked.

I vaguely remember you saying there would be no point in God resurrecting them to burn them up.
I think you believe they are simply not resurrected again. In other words, its finished already for them.

I hope I am not misrepresenting you.

No didn’t say that...

They are resurrected and also to be present at their judgement...

 

[iouae]

No didn’t say that...

They are resurrected and also to be present at their judgement...

Clefty, are they burnt up after being judged as incorrigibly wicked?

 

[clefty]

Clefty, are they burnt up after being judged as incorrigibly wicked?

Yes sir...there will be no more...sin death sorrow or pain...anywhere

HalleluYah

 

[KingdomRose]

What is a human comprised of?

Gen 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Thus ground + breath of life (O2) = soul.

Thus the soul comprises nothing immortal, only matter and oxygen.

The question therefore arises, if we die, and we just are opposed of matter, how could God resurrect us when we die?

God knows how many hairs we have, and knows our thoughts i.e. everything about us.
He knows our DNA too, so He could put us back together as we looked before just from our genes.

Our body and our life's experience is just data. And if God has a perfect memory, then He knows every bit of data about us, and could resurrect us in whatever sort of body He wanted, and with all our past memories, character traits and individual personality.

Thus, God does not need us to have a spiritual component in order for Him to resurrect us at the last trump, even though our mortal bodies may have decayed.

If I had a dollar for every time I have heard a preacher tell us that we are a soul, in a body, with a spirit or some other such nonsense. I probably got this last sentence wrong since I tune out knowing they are horribly mistaken.

Mankind comprises nothing more than ground and breath. All our thoughts are stored in God's memory for Him to resurrect us at the appropriate time.

Very well said, iouae. I might further reply: No one has ever had an "immortal soul." The Bible says that the soul DIES, so it is not immortal (Ezekiel 18:4). Indeed, Jesus is said to be the ONLY IMMORTAL person in history, when you look at I Timothy 6:16.

"The one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men can see."


Why do we think that we have to have some ethereal part of us floating around somewhere for God to be able to bring us back to life? There is no spirit or soul that leaves the body at death. As you said, God REMEMBERS everything about a person, and will bring him back to life in the flesh, as he was before he died, but without, of course, any ailments or disfigurements.

 

[rstrats]

KingdomRose,
re: "There is no spirit or soul that leaves the body at death."

Ecclesiastes 12:7 - "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it."

 

[KingdomRose]

KingdomRose,
re: "There is no spirit or soul that leaves the body at death."

Ecclesiastes 12:7 - "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it."

What is "the spirit?" It is the life-force that keeps a body alive and breathing. It is not some conscious part of us that floats away at death. It is not a separate, living, conscious part of us. God breathed into Adam the breath of life, and Adam became a living soul (Genesis 2:7). There is no mention of anything surviving death in Genesis. It's entirely the idea of Satan who said, "You positively will not die" to Eve. So now "death" doesn't mean that someone really died! People accept Satan's lie.

This spirit that returns to God is just the power that keeps a body alive. It "returns" in the sense that God is responsible for the life of that one. This understanding harmonizes with all other scriptures. Your idea that the spirit has a consciousness does not harmonize.

 

[iouae]

Very well said, iouae. I might further reply: No one has ever had an "immortal soul." The Bible says that the soul DIES, so it is not immortal (Ezekiel 18:4). Indeed, Jesus is said to be the ONLY IMMORTAL person in history, when you look at I Timothy 6:16.

"The one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men can see."


Why do we think that we have to have some ethereal part of us floating around somewhere for God to be able to bring us back to life? There is no spirit or soul that leaves the body at death. As you said, God REMEMBERS everything about a person, and will bring him back to life in the flesh, as he was before he died, but without, of course, any ailments or disfigurements.

Thank you, yes, the Bible speaks of the "quick and the dead" (Acts 10:42) implying that the dead are not quick or animated/lively.

 

[rstrats]

KingdomRose,
re: "What is 'the spirit?' It is the life-force that keeps a body alive and breathing. It is not some conscious part of us that floats away at death."

I was merely responding to your assertion that "There is no spirit...that leaves the body at death". Ecclesiastes says there is. What that "spirit" consists of is a separate issue.

 

[iouae]

KingdomRose,
re: "What is 'the spirit?' It is the life-force that keeps a body alive and breathing. It is not some conscious part of us that floats away at death."

I was merely responding to your assertion that "There is no spirit...that leaves the body at death". Ecclesiastes says there is. What that "spirit" consists of is a separate issue.

Ecclesiastes says that life leaves the body at death.

Ecc 3:21
Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Solomon is saying who knows if the life force of a man goes up, and the life force of a beast goes down at death. Solomon is asking a question, not making a statement of fact.