One can only hope for mankind an evolutionary leap away from this neanderthal, tribal mind-set. :idunno:
Hell's Daily Arrivals
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One can only hope for mankind an evolutionary leap away from this neanderthal, tribal mind-set. :idunno:
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
For the most part I think that's already happened.
Lon
Well-known member
Kind of like ants in a pasture? Just until the tractor or hurricane comes. It is an illusion.
So do you. In this very thread. The point of sides is to try to be on the one that deals in truth. The challenge is, without a resurrected Savior, my house falls.
Yet again, in this very thread. Truth is an us/them to lies. You understand this: Yin/Yang.
Lon
Well-known member
:noway: You've never heard of "Jesus Christ?" Never heard of a "Bible?" Obvious doesn't mean "don't seek out a truth." Objective is this:
Jeremiah 29:13 or this Psalm 14:1. You CAN check to verify the first. You can grasp the second. If not, scripture gives indication: 2 Corinthians 4:3
I believe it is as simple as this: Those who are not opposed, will seek. Those who are, don't have a heart (desire) for Him or what He offers.
In a real sense, it depends then on what one is made of and whether those values are there or not. The gospel does try to reach hard-heads and hearts.
Realize this website and a few others are microcosms of the Christian faith. I was reading a thread on another website (British tabloid) where a well-known Christian is accused of infidelity. Some Christians and a lot of nonChristians are condemning him in comments. I find it out of synch with Scripture as well as 'innocence until proven guilty.' In the same way God reaches those with hard heads, there are people in church who are not Christians simply because they don't know the Savior. You'll have to wade through what is true and what is not if you are seeking. If not, it is better to not join the other crowd that throws rocks. Even on TOL, I've a lot of 'wait-and-see' patience. It seems you do to, to some degree: You've been here a few years.
We've talked about this sum in the past, but perhaps a bit more of my thoughts and reflections might mean something more:
Has to. There has to be someplace for those who "don't want God" to go. Hell is an extension of our existence already, side-by-side here.
Also, the extension of weeping and gnashing of teeth is ALREADY what is going on. People who suffer without God are already crying. People who don't like God are already gnashing their teeth. In eternity, not a lot has changed. I don't try to minimize hell, just agree with those who believe we are living in a version of it now. ACDC penned 'my friends are gonna be there too" but perhaps 'alone' will be the larger change. Evil is refrained because people who hold to values exist in this world. When those people are separated....it gets worse and worse. That's got to be a good description of hell, at least as I've read about it in the Bible.
Rather, wouldn't it be a REALLY good idea to look into avoiding that mess? Christians haven't been great at explaining hell better. Many seem to relish in the demise. I suppose, as one is characterized as ruining others, it has a bit of a retribution righteousness sense.
The Apostle Paul wished that he could be condemned if it meant the salvation of his fellow Jews.
Lon
Well-known member
Your 'summation' here is supposed to tell you both how learned and unlearned you are about the happenings in this world. If your world is shallow, then this short soundbyte is it. Are you a wheat or tare? You feed the us/them yourself. It seems to me, liberals don't want us all to get along, they want themselves to be the only thing that exists, one way or the other.
Truth is objective and well beyond such characterizations. Your worldview is too simple.
That proverbial dog's not going to hunt. Where I differ with you is met at a mere intellectual divide...my views regarding your religious predilection do not entail spiritually exhalting myself by way of disparaging, dichotomized forms of judgement (damnation) upon you. The worst you'll get from me is mere wonderment concerning your capacity at reasoning and critical thinking.
Clearly, the Yin/Yang concept escapes you. It's not the dichotomy you've seemed to assert, rather examine its graphic representation...it's visually symbolic of synergistic oneness. Your insistence upon dualistic (us/them) divisiveness is as segregated from the concept as humanly possible.
Lon
Well-known member
When you do it back? The worst is a lofty view of self, which you certainly possess. Jesus said He didn't come for the likes of these, but those in need. The point: Tares who want to be tares, think nothing is wrong with being tares, don't and won't. What is of concern is that you think yourself and worldview so lofty that it doesn't need nor want the other. It means you like your lofty perch and see others as beneath you. "Neanderthals" is certainly the fruit of such absorbed comment. Do I got to love your audacious spunk or feel sorry for a fellow whose worldview is so naive?
Erm, no. Christianity would be your yang. You really don't embrace it by any stretch of imagination. It is you who really doesn't understand his 'own' supposed philosophy, but I don't really look for genuine Buddhists in the Western world. They follow their own ideas and simply like the freedom of Buddhism that allows them couch their own ideas, already in play. You don't really have any of the 'embrace' in you with such polarizing overused mindless rhetoric like Neanderthal and tribal. Somehow you assume you've risen above while expressing the imagined same or worse
lain: You are too full of yourself to see anything less than your own imagined superiority. You've expressed enough regarding unborn human beings to have dropped you far below the standard of 'enlightened.' You are an incredible enigma of angst toward Christians and I've never understood you. Your sig is perfect for such because you are afraid and bothered yet think you are more intelligent or human while espousing the most dismal human values in your abortion discussions on TOL. You really have no room for such comment or platforming on here. Sadly, 1) it won't change and 2) I nor any other are on your par as the lowly 'neandrathals' and backward tribe members. You've made sure of that so behind your ivory tower. Your sig gives you away as a sad and frightened little guy, not really above those you try and disdain and/or demean on TOL. THAT, is why you've been banned most of the time btw. That and your values really are beneath contempt more often than not. So much for the progression of the human race. I realize it is always tough between us, but this is all you allow. You really have to face your own rhetoric head on. I'm not being unkind to you. I'm echoing back to you, your own problematic worldview and statements. They are dismal.
Let's get back to it: You are either a wheat or a tare and no room inbetween. Sure, tares make dandelion salad, but such preys upon the ground of wheat and gives little back. In the Yin/Yang garden, there is no need to weed, just control. In God's economy, the weeds have to go. These are not my rules. There is no 'tribe' mentality to it at all. It rests simply on this: Jesus Christ exists. Prove the truth right or wrong. The rest is simply distraction and anti-intellectual. There is no other talking point. There is a reason most Buddhists aren't Christian. :think:
Lon
Well-known member
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
You say it "has to" but why? You seem to determine that anyone who doesn't believe or have doubts "don't like God". There might be plenty who don't like the portrayal of a god as described by people who preach eternal hellfire and brimstone etc but that's not the same thing. There's no consistent agreement among even fundamentalists as to what "hell" actually is so is it any wonder that people balk at the notion? If it was such an integral aspect of Christianity then why isn't it abundantly clear with no room for doubt as to exactly what it is? Answer me something Lon, if God is love then is love thwarted by fallible man? Would a truly loving God be unable to create life without an inevitable "hell" of suffering? What, there was no better way?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Sure, He could have made robots without free will
Because rejecting the Foundation of reality is foolish.
Lon
Well-known member
Matthew 18:18,19 There are consequences to our every choice. Through what we do, it truly is done purposefully. Look at the end: Matthew 13:42 Note responses today: either already weeping, or already gnashing teeth, even in this very thread. Does it 'have' to be so? In as much as we insist, it is a bummer, but yes. I yet believe hell is of our own making. Whatever we bind, will stay bound. We need to pay attention to what we call good, bad, and which we participate in. There are consequences to actions, it seems to me, necessarily. The Gospel is this: "Your consequences CAN be changed. Someone cares.
Because of something I've said to you, or to Quip? Certainly Quip doesn't. I do have to wonder, given the rep, if you 'like' his comment regarding 'neanderthals' and backwards 'tribalism.'
Does such appear to 'like' anybody? We have to see what is inside of us, with our own comments.
"Neanderthal" and "tribally" backwards: is as much a slight upon the Lord Jesus Christ
as it is upon those who desire to follow Him. Where do you fall on the spectrum? Like or "Dislike?"
There isn't any new surprise or revelation other than that, is there?
Some explain better than others. There is not a lot of mystery there. I've had good math teachers and poor ones. The poor ones certainly could have turned me sour to mathematics, but the better part of education is to own it and not let a teacher come between us and objective truth.
I don't think balking bad. It is a good initial reaction, but I'd hoped you'd have moved on from rumors to what is true and verifiable at this point. :e4e:
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
What is "true and verifiable" Lon? In regards to "hell", just what is that exactly? If I give a rep to someone it's because I think they make a valid point or something I can agree or get on board with to some degree. You haven't answered me as to whether a truly loving God couldn't create life without an eternal "hell" being inevitable either.
When you do it back? The worst is a lofty view of self, which you certainly possess. Jesus said He didn't come for the likes of these, but those in need. The point: Tares who want to be tares, think nothing is wrong with being tares, don't and won't. What is of concern is that you think yourself and worldview so lofty that it doesn't need nor want the other. It means you like your lofty perch and see others as beneath you. "Neanderthals" is certainly the fruit of such absorbed comment. Do I got to love your audacious spunk or feel sorry for a fellow whose worldview is so naive?
Erm, no. Christianity would be your yang. You really don't embrace it by any stretch of imagination. It is you who really doesn't understand his 'own' supposed philosophy, but I don't really look for genuine Buddhists in the Western world. They follow their own ideas and simply like the freedom of Buddhism that allows them couch their own ideas, already in play. You don't really have any of the 'embrace' in you with such polarizing overused mindless rhetoric like Neanderthal and tribal. Somehow you assume you've risen above while expressing the imagined same or worse
I'm not being unkind to you. I'm echoing back to you, your own problematic worldview and statements. They are dismal.
Let's get back to it: You are either a wheat or a tare and no room inbetween. Sure, tares make dandelion salad, but such preys upon the ground of wheat and gives little back. In the Yin/Yang garden, there is no need to weed, just control. In God's economy, the weeds have to go. These are not my rules. There is no 'tribe' mentality to it at all. It rests simply on this: Jesus Christ exists. Prove the truth right or wrong. The rest is simply distraction and anti-intellectual. There is no other talking point. There is a reason most Buddhists aren't Christian. :think:
Well, it seems each considers the other as hopelessly arrogant. Though, your spiritual arrogance is of little importance to me, if only equal parts annoying and entertaining; my arrogance (in the lack of your beliefs) seems of inherent importance to you. It seems you suffer with the understanding that your notion of god is one of many prevailing such notions wrought by mankind... the truth of which is invariably beyond demonstration, whilst a hostile mode of self-righteous pursuasion seems to be failing you as well. My views require nothing from you, I'd rather focus on what we may hold in common as fellow human beings (apart from ToL) Yours, requires my seat in hell and as such tends to expound upon, exploit and - daresay - availed by those very differences!
A striking contrast don't you think?
Lon
Well-known member
Verifiable is again, the foundation of Jesus Christ. My whole house stands or falls upon Him. After? Whatever He says is true.
Lon
Well-known member
You make your own chains. Your worldview is dismal and certainly not above any 'neanderthal' I've ever met. None of my 'neanderthals' kill people to send them to hell. You advocate/participate in the death of those who cannot possibly fight back. That's an 'evolved' man? :nono: You are just delusional.
An anti-intellectual convenience of choice, means:
Wrong:
1) Not wrought by man.
2) Your logic is immature: doesn't mean one isn't correct.
Incorrect. God assures He will be found by those who seek Him. Such is provable, you just choose not to, because that's who you are. The problem, Quip, is you.
Absolutely not. This is about your disdain for 'neanderthals.' You are simply looking for self-fullfilling prophecy to echo true so you can continue on your merry wrong, delusional way. I'm not that guy. You will always have to think when talking with me. I'm at least your intellectual equal. You've no room or reason for mental nor moral superiority complex here.
No. Your mistake is to think "I'm" Jesus Christ/God. I'm not self-righteous. :nono: I'm simply seated in truth. While I understand the problem of those who have some misplaced 'glee' in your demise, I believe it O.T. Some confuse the two. Perhaps 'tribal' would fit, but it doesn't help.
I'm a sounding board: "Neanderthal" and backwards "tribal" mean you've gone well away from treating me/us as 'fellow human beings.' - Doesn't ring true. You deem yourself and unassailable wall, but again, that sig belies a fear and trembling, but you are missing the object of trembling. It reflects practicing atheism. Secure ivory tower, yet trembling? Doesn't make sense. It is odd to me that you and others think this sort of dialogue entertaining. There is something not quite right in you to relish such. There is something not quite right in your sentiment and value of the unborn. Quip, there is something not quite right in you. Good news: Mark 2:17
Lon
Well-known member
John 3:18 Let's be reading our Bibles :up: