Hello Lon

[meshak]

time for bed.

good night, see you tomorrow.

 

[steko]

He still does not say you have to believe in the trinity to be saved, does it?

Nope, it doesn't.

However, one must be genuinely saved to perceive the triune GOD in Scripture.

 

[Lon]

He still does not say you have to believe in the trinity to be saved, does it?

John 8:23 He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

John 8:24 says these people (and likely us) have to believe "I am He" or they (and perhaps we) would die in our sins.

He has been explaining to them in pieces Who He is and said "Who I told you I am already from the beginning" as well as "Before Abraham was, I Am."

Something about "Who He is/was" is connected to eternal life. Agree?

 

[6days]

So you don't admit following Jesus is not the way to salvation?

Correct.*

Salvation is because of what Jesus did at the cross. He saved me. How can I take *any credit for what Jesus did for me? *


I can't become righteous by trying to follow Jesus. I am righteous because of Jesus. My own righteousness...its like filthy rags.*


I do however follow Jesus. I love Him...I want to honor Him, serve Him, please Him obey Him. My salvation is assured because of what Jesus did. *I mess up...sin sometimes; but as a child of the King, He does not toss me aside. I still belong to Him, and come to Him for forgiveness.*

 

[God's Truth]

Correct.*

Salvation is because of what Jesus did at the cross. He saved me. How can I take *any credit for what Jesus did for me? *


I can't become righteous by trying to follow Jesus. I am righteous because of Jesus. My own righteousness...its like filthy rags.*


I do however follow Jesus. I love Him...I want to honor Him, serve Him, please Him obey Him. My salvation is assured because of what Jesus did. *I mess up...sin sometimes; but as a child of the King, He does not toss me aside. I still belong to Him, and come to Him for forgiveness.*

You were taught to misunderstand the filthy rag scripture.

How do you EVER get that obeying God is as a filthy rag?!

The Jews who had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering BLOOD, God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins; that made the blood offering as a menstrual bloody rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.


Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.


Our righteous act of FAITH in Jesus is a filthy rag if we do not OBEY HIM.

 

[God's Truth]

See how she is. She can't even answer the questions she asks everyone else.


You are a charlatan and a fake, Gutruth. Better get on with that mysterious obeying of yours. :chuckle:

Open up the Bible and look for the letters in red.

 

[God's Truth]

Maybe :think:


:nono: Can you find it?


A 'would you?' or 'please' would have been nice? Why the condescending? When is the last time I've talked to you?



From what I've read, Protestants by and large are called "brothers in error," if they are largely orthodox so if you have something that says I am a heretic, I'd have to see it. I've not seen it to date. -Lon

You are the one who is condescending.

Your fathers are Catholic heretics, according to the Catholic religion.

 

[marhig]

John 8:23 He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

John 8:24 says these people (and likely us) have to believe "I am He" or they (and perhaps we) would die in our sins.

He has been explaining to them in pieces Who He is and said "Who I told you I am already from the beginning" as well as "Before Abraham was, I Am."

Something about "Who He is/was" is connected to eternal life. Agree?

What's that got to do with believing in the trinity to be saved?

None of what you have quoted says that at all. And believing in who he is, is believing that he is the son of God as it says we are to do in the scriptures, nowhere are we told that we have to believe that Jesus is God!

Also what about this?

John 17

I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

[meshak]

John 8:23 He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

John 8:24 says these people (and likely us) have to believe "I am He" or they (and perhaps we) would die in our sins.

He has been explaining to them in pieces Who He is and said "Who I told you I am already from the beginning" as well as "Before Abraham was, I Am."

Something about "Who He is/was" is connected to eternal life. Agree?

He still does not say you have to believe in the trinity to be saved. There is no hint of three Gods in one.

 

[meshak]

Correct.*

So what is the condition to be saved or followers?

What does Jesus say?

 

[meshak]

Nope, it doesn't.

However, one must be genuinely saved to perceive the triune GOD in Scripture.

So what does Jesus say to be saved?

 

[meshak]

I will back this afternoon.

see you.

 

[6days]

How do you EVER get that obeying God is as a filthy rag?

*

Strawman.

This is what I said "I can't become righteous by trying to follow Jesus. I am righteous because of Jesus. My own righteousness...its like filthy rags"

 

[6days]

So what is the condition to be saved...

BLINDNESS.

We all are spiritually blind.

That is the condition we are saved from.

...or followers?

The condition we are in to be a follower is SAVED. Paul thought he was being a follower of God, but he was just being religous. Jesus gave him spiritual sight, and Paul became a true follower.*

What does Jesus say?

Jesus said "If anyone would come after me, let him take up his cross and follow me."

Many people claim to follow Jesus; even many Muslims claim that. However, many of these 'followers' have not 'taken up the cross'. They reject the free gift of the cross, and try to earn their own salvation.



*

 

[Lon]

He still does not say you have to believe in the trinity to be saved, does it?

No, I agree. Rather it says: John 8:24 " I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

Would you agree, according to this verse, that whoever He was talking to (them or possibly us if it can be shown), they had to believe He was "Who He was" or that they and/or we "would die in sins?"

So what is the condition to be saved or followers?

What does Jesus say?

So what does Jesus say to be saved?

John 8:24
The Lord Jesus Christ said that He had previously told them Who He was, according to this verse ("...I already told you...."). I went back through John 1-7 looking for where He had previously told them Who He was. Here is a small bit of what He had previously told them:

Spoiler

John 5:19 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. So the Son does 'everything' the Father does, it is an equatedness with Him, agree?
John 5:20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel.
John 5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. Further describing He is capable of doing all the Father does as God, correct?
John 5:22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, Here, though capable, this role is the Son's, not the Father's by exercise, but God is judge, thus there is equatedness, agree?
John 5:23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. -Very important: "Just as" meaning exactly the same. Correct?
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 5:25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
John 5:26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. Thus, He is our God, our only given source of Life
John 5:27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
John 5:28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
John 5:29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
Witnesses to Jesus
John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. And He just told us that this authority is His own. The Father and Son are distinct, but there is equatedness that makes us think "triune"
He is God, and as Keypurr has agreed: The EXACT representation of the Father.
John 5:31 If I alone bear witness about myself, my testimony is not true.
John 5:32 There is another who bears witness about me, and I know that the testimony that he bears about me is true.
John 5:33 You sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth.
John 5:34 Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. So this is why I posted this passage: to show it is one place where He had already told them this, that they needed to believe Who He was to be saved. Would you agree then, that we have to know Who He is, to be saved? Does John 8:24 say exactly this?
John 5:35 He was a burning and shining lamp, and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light.
John 5:36 But the testimony that I have is greater than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me.
John 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen,
John 5:38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent. He has told them and will tell them again that He and the Father "are one" (the same).
John 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
John 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
John 5:41 I do not receive glory from people.
John 5:42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you.
John 5:43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
John 5:44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
Once again, He has given them (and us?) and equatedness: There is only one God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Lon]

You are the one who is condescending.

:idunno: Looks like false projecting to me...

Your fathers are Catholic heretics, according to the Catholic religion.

Ah, there you go. It was you who called me a heretic, not the other way around. It is weird how your mind works.

Another reason you are on ignore, is because we do not have effective communication. I simply pray you will have
someone else to talk to because there is no communication going on between you and I. It is a waste of your time too.

 

[Lon]

What's that got to do with believing in the trinity to be saved?

Rather look at John 8:24 again. "Something" about "Who He is" and us believing it, saves, right?

None of what you have quoted says that at all. And believing in who he is, is believing that he is the son of God as it says we are to do in the scriptures, nowhere are we told that we have to believe that Jesus is God!

I posted some scriptures above. The Lord Jesus Christ had previously told them Who He is/was and He said if they didn't believe it, they would die in their sins. If John 8:24 applies to us (I haven't proved that), then we too have to believe He is exactly Who He says He is 'or we will die in our sins." Check me with that verse to see if I am correct.

Also what about this?

John 17

I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

In my humble estimation, we are not of the world in a sense that Spiritual is not worldly, but Jesus is otherworldy in incredibly different ways. I am not of the world in the sense that the world is under foreign masters. Jesus is incredibly unique. * I do not mind some comparison, but I hide in the shadow of the cross lest I become more in my own eyes than a creation of God who will bow before the Name of Jesus. Philippians 2:10,11
*(I cringe when Unitarians say 'we are gods,' I am a creation, not the Creator)

 

[meshak]

Jesus said "If anyone would come after me, let him take up his cross and follow me."

So it is clear that you need to follow Him if you want salvation, not believe in the trinity.

 

[meshak]

Spoiler

John 5:19 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. So the Son does 'everything' the Father does, it is an equatedness with Him, agree?
John 5:20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel.
John 5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.

Spoiler

He does not say anything about believe in the trinity is condition to be saved.

 

[meshak]

So far none of you cannot find anything that Jesus says to believe in the trinity is the condition to be saved.

You can run but you cannot hide, saved ones.