Hello Lon

[God's Truth]

Yep that's the truth!

John 16

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Romans 10

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved

Acts 16

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved

John 3

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

There's no such thing as predestination, we have freewill and a choice, to believe the gospel and believe in Jesus, or not. And once we believe we are to repent. If we don't believe and repent, then we are rejecting God and Christ. God doesn't save people before they believe, they must believe first to be saved!

Exactly.

 

[God's Truth]

To quoth Saint John W, you're a dirty rat, and yet your and GT's biggest concern is pointing out that others are dirty rats. And since we're all dirty rats, what gives you any right or authority in proclaiming that others are dirty rats? You're not a less dirty rat, you're just a plain dirty rat.

What you said makes no sense. It sounds like you are an angry confused person. We are dirty rats you are a dirty rat, you say... You are the one speaking of rats and being a hypocrite.

 

[God's Truth]

Although I disagree with you often...you are totally correct with what you say in this post. But... we don't become disciples by doing; Instead we do because we are His disciples.

No, there isn't a tricky way to obey or to say you obey.

There is never ever a wrong way to obey.

You have been taught wrong by someone to believe that it is somehow wrong to obey, and to say you obey.

It is not tricky.

Obey to get saved, and to stay saved.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes


Hold on. Let's tackle trinity a bit later. We have a lot to discuss yet about disciple, new creation and saved.

Meshak, did any disciples turn away?

Yes, disciples turned away/

Do any new creations lose their new createdness?

Yes, Satan ensnares people and people lose their salvation.

Does being a disciple mean 'saved?'

Disciple means saved.

Do you know of any scriptures that answer or address these questions?

I sure do false accuser. You know, how you said earlier that I was a heretic.

Do you want to debate someone that knows God's Truth?

I will try to help in the next post but we are both committed to going to Jesus for the answers so I will wait on Him until He gives you these answers. -Lon

So far you prove you know nothing.

 

[meshak]

I don't want to beat around bush.

So you don't admit following Jesus is not the way to salvation?

Bump for Lon.

I see that you visited yet you did not answer my question.

You guys don't seem to know how to get saved it seems.

I am trying to prove your condition of being saved is not biblical.

So far you cannot answer my simple question.

 

[meshak]

I think my answer will be the same as many Christians. We follow Him because we are saved. We don't follow Him trying to earn salvation.
Jesus paid the price for me and you at Calvary. I can't add on brownie points to what Jesus did, through my behavior. He paid my debt in full.

Again...I follow Him because I love Him...I'm indebted to Him...He knows what is best for me and wants my obedience.

Ok, since Lon cannot answer my simple question, I will ask you the same.

So you don't admit following Jesus is not the way to salvation?

 

[Lon]

I don't want to beat around bush.

So you don't admit following Jesus is not the way to salvation?

I am TRYING to get you to think. To search scriptures where we BOTH are students again. If you can't do that, is there a point?

Hold on. Let's tackle trinity a bit later. We have a lot to discuss yet about disciple, new creation and saved.

I pray you notice, I'm not giving you 'my' answers but I believe I am asking VERY important questions about the scripture you and I are looking at. If you can't do that anymore, you are well beyond Jesus being able to teach you anything any more. We both desperately need to know what Jesus is saying. I asked an important question: Does being a disciple mean we are saved? Would it mean we are Christians? I think it will help you understand that someone isn't necessarily disagreeing that in order to be Jesus' disciple, we'd have to follow Him and His example. Rather, they are trying to say something else that you miss. They are saying something about who they are. I haven't sold everything I own to follow Christ yet. Does that make me a poor disciple? More...does it make me not saved? Do I have to sell all I have to be saved? Are we talking about two different things? I'm asking you to show me the scriptures, Meshak.

 

[Lon]

1) Yep, we deny all and take up our cross and follow Him OR we cannot be His disciples. How is everyone doing with that? Kudos if you are, (seriously) :up:

2)Do you think there is a difference between a new creation and a disciple? Can one who is not a new creation follow Christ? Is everyone who is a disciple, a new creation?

3) Was the Lord Jesus Christ talking about a state of perfection? Was it a general attitude where if I flub up some days, that's okay? IOW, was it a teachable moment and pointing to something only He could do, or was it something that was actually possible?

4) I am not wealthy, but by the world's standards, I'm very wealthy, even poor in America. Jesus said Matthew 19:16-24
Is discipleship the same as heaven? If we really followed Jesus, would we have no home? Live in poverty? I think that is exactly what discipleship means: to follow in His exact footsteps. If not, what wouldn't we actually follow today? How would we know?

Meshak, can you share any scriptures with me that answer any of these questions? Some of them even?

Please and thank you.

 

[patrick jane]

Jesus says to do this and do that, and do not do this, and do not do that.

Lon and other Calvinsits say, "No Jesus, I cannot and will not---but you, save me first."

Jesus does NOT save unbelievers.

There is NO scripture anywhere that says Jesus saves unbelievers.

You don't obey

 

[patrick jane]

He said don't listen to fools like Marhig and GT, and I obey Him completely.

You don't obey

 

[patrick jane]

So you don't admit following Jesus is not the way to salvation?

No, I don't

 

[meshak]

I am TRYING to get you to think.

I want you to be honest about your faith because your so called "orthodoxy" faith is perverted.

I am proving that your condition of salvation is wrong, and it is a grave sin to label Christians as non-believer, cult and unsaved, just because they don't believe in the trinity.

Jesus says so many things how to be true follower and you dismiss them.

 

[meshak]

Meshak, can you share any scriptures with me that answer any of these questions? Some of them even?

Please and thank you.

Please read the post I just gave you.

thanks.

 

[Eagles Wings]

@Lon

Thanks for reminding me of your long suffering, in wanting to convey biblical truths,
and why the ignore button keeps me quiet.

 

[God's Truth]

You don't obey

You don't obey, mocker.

 

[God's Truth]

@Lon.

Thanks for reminding me of your long suffering, in wanting to convey biblical truths,
and why the ignore button saves my sanity.

His long suffering? You mean his hiding?

 

[meshak]

@Lon.

Thanks for reminding me of your long suffering, in wanting to convey biblical truths,
and why the ignore button saves my sanity.

Dismissing Jesus' teachings is not true Christianity. You are only fooling yourselves.

You are no different than MADs; they disregard Jesus' teachings too..

 

[meshak]

No trinity believers ever able to answer my simple question about condition how to be saved.

They do their best to change the subject as you can see in this thread.

 

[Lon]

I want you to be honest about your faith because your so called "orthodoxy" faith is perverted.

:nono: Let's just both approach the scriptures as if we are both seeing them for the first time. We then need to look up the verses to see what the answer is. Can that be the rule for our discussion please? It will be hard for me too, but let's try.

I am proving that your condition of salvation is wrong,

Forget that for now. Let us both just ask questions and answer them with scriptures, okay?

and it is a grave sin to label Christians as non-believer, cult and unsaved, just because they don't believe in the trinity.

Look up the definitions of each with me. Let's see together (I've only said 'cult' to you that I remember):

Christian:1. A believer in the religion of Christ.
2. A professor of his belief in the religion of Christ.
3. A real disciple of Christ; one who believes in the truth of the Christian religion, and studies to follow the example, and obey the precepts, of Christ; a believer in Christ who is characterized by real piety.
4. In a general sense, the word Christians includes all who are born in a Christian country or of Christian parents.

According to these, would you be a Christian?

Nonbeliever:UNBELIE'VER
, n.
1. An incredulous person; one who does not believe.
2. An infidel; one who discredits revelation, or the mission, character and doctrines of Christ. 2 Cor 6.

On this one, perhaps we both could say the other is an unbeliever based on what we understand. So according to 1) we are both believers. According to 2) perhaps not, but I haven't called you one.

Cult: n.
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
n.
The followers of such a religion or sect.

n.
A system or community of religious worship and ritual.

A community of one religious following, then, would be considered a cult but you agre correct, it also carries some of these other meanings if that is what is intended. For me, when I use it, I am speaking about "A group that splits off and goes against the larger main group, and no longer believes as they believe" That definition fits JW's I believe. Do you agree? I mean in this way, is it true you are a part of a cult?

Unsaved: Not saved; not having eternal life.

I have heard others say this to you, but I have not said this to you. I would want to talk a LOT more with you before doing so.

Jesus says so many things how to be true follower and you dismiss them.

:nono: No I don't. :idunno: Let's talk about some things He said, THEN you can tell me if I dismiss them or not, okay?

 

[meshak]

double