Hi IMJerusha,
Would you please tell me how to do quotes from 2 different people in one reply box?
Thanks!
You're on a need to know basis kid
ECT Heaven is For Real
- Thread starter Sheila B
- Start date
You're on a need to know basis kid
Livelystone
New member
Not taking any kids word including yours
Just because you are ignorant does not mean all others are
When a person dies the spirit goes back to God............ if you don't like the truth argue with God because it is in His Bible
A persons spirit is not the person.
A person is dead until made alive by Gods power.
LA
Livelystone
New member
The spirit is the source of life and a body without the spirit is dead
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
The soul is the mind, will and emotions of said spirit
The spirit and soul are the real person that lives within a physical body that is an earthen vessel for holding said "spiritual body" allowing it to be compatible with a physical world because they are within a physical body
When the body gives up the spirit as Jesus did on the Cross, the body is dead......... because the spirit goes back to God who gave it and is why Jesus said he gave His Spirit back to his Father.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
What God does with said spirit is up to Him........ if he sends it back the person is "raised from the dead" as the spirit re-enters the body
IMJerusha
New member
Sheila, I don't see how anyone who reads and accepts Scripture could view heaven that way, do you?
This is the third time I am coming to you. At the mouth of two witnesses or three shall every word established. (*2 Corinthians *13:*1 ASV)
Livelystone
New member
The only witness for God's Word is God's Word......... but you do not furnish any scripture to back your position, therefore, you have no witnesses supporting your position
On the other hand I have three witnesses that you cannot trump! Either you are ignorant of the things of God, or do not care if what you say has any truth in it whatsoever?
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
When the body gives up the spirit as Jesus did on the Cross, the body is dead......... because the spirit goes back to God who gave it and is why Jesus said he gave His Spirit back to his Father.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
When a person dies their spirit and soul go back to God, and God alone decides the disposition of said spirit/soul. Should he send it back to the body that gave it up as he did with Jesus........ The person returns to life as in "raised from the dead".
Anything less than this has no scriptural support
IMJerusha
New member
Do you think the child's parents are in on that hearsay?
oatmeal
Well-known member
You make it about me.
It is not about me.
It is about what God states in scripture.
Too bad you have an issue with scripture.
oatmeal
Well-known member
I thought Catholics first went to Perogytory
They did when they had a Polish pope.
When they have an Italian pope they go to pastagatory.
When they have a Latin pope, they go to paellagatory.
When they have a French pope?
A Swiss pope?
a Norwegian pope?
oatmeal
Well-known member
Being registered is not the same thing as being there.
You are registered in this website, are you literally in this website?
oatmeal
Well-known member
So you are suggesting that "so shall we ever be with the lord" is not true?
I Thessalonians 4:17
The reference to sleep is the figure of speech euphemism, using a softer, tenderer way to express a harsh reality.
Maybe you noticed that Jesus used that figure of speech in describing the state of Lazarus.
But since his disciples misunderstood him, they did recognize the euphemism, Jesus Christ had to correct them and state the facts plainly.
John 11:11-14
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
When you read the context of Luke 20:38, you will see that the context is the resurrection [from the dead]
Luke 20:38
For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
Luke 20:27-38
27 Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,
28 Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
29 There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children.
30 And the second took her to wife, and he died childless.
31 And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died.
32 Last of all the woman died also.
33 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
When and by what means, is God the God of the living? At and because of the resurrection from the dead.
Philippians 1:23-24
For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
Paul was looking forward to I Thessalonians 4:13-18 when we depart this earth to ever be with the lord
Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Witnesses of what? The results of God's promises coming to pass when we believe. Hebrews 11
By their lives, we still learn from their examples, because their examples of believing still resonate in our lives when we read about them from scriptures, scriptures which include Hebrews 11.
You mention:
Hebrews 12:22-23
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
What is it in that passage that states that the dead pre resurrection, pre rising from the dead are literally in heaven?
The idea of people getting to heaven immediately upon death is an ongoing misunderstanding of scripture. For some believers, it may take the events of I Thessalonians 4:13-17 to awake them out of their sleep
oatmeal
Well-known member
Yep!
oatmeal
Well-known member
If the dead are not literally dead, then why call them dead?
Why not treat your dead loved ones as living people?
Why bury them alive?
Why not leave them lay in their beds at home or in their cars where they didn't die?
Gross !!!!!!!
Yeah, no kidding!
The dead are dead until raised from the dead.
Romans 1:4
Why not treat your dead loved ones as living people?
Why bury them alive?
Why not leave them lay in their beds at home or in their cars where they didn't die?
Gross !!!!!!!
Yeah, no kidding!
The dead are dead until raised from the dead.
Romans 1:4
I Thessalonians 4:13-18 states those who sleep will rise, it who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. It does not say all sleep.
"concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope." This assesses those who died without receiving the Holy Spirit.
Those who sleep will not be left behind "we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep."
Livelystone
New member
Paul is telling these people they are dead with Christ yet are still very much alive.
You will never fully understand the resurrection and our life in Christ as long as you do not understand that "dead in the Bible does not always speak of a person who is not still physically alive.
Read these verses and take them before God
Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances
Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God
No.
If that was the case then Christ did not die, He only shed His body.
He was therefore still conscious and was not dead.
Your view denies the atonement of Christ.
It is spiritualism, the basis of the RCC praying to dead saints.
LA
Livelystone
New member
Try reading the verses I just gave to Oatmeal in the post above yours, (post # 97)
Then there is this verse I already posted you have conveniently passed by.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost
Even the death of Jesus is still just as I say it is....... when the spirit leaves the body the person dies and when the spirit leaves it goes straight back to God
I have many more scriptural witnesses than I need to prove me right and you have none............ just your opinion that is as wrong as sin is wrong (because it is sin to deny the truth when presented with two or more witnesses with none proven false and no scriptural witnesses in your favor )......... not even one !!!!
Actually, in Greek the word for "gave up the ghost" is exepneusen (ἐξέπνευσεν) and it literally means "he breathed out".