Hear Israel. Yahveh our God, Yahveh is one.
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
Writing it in Hebrew still doesn’t make it a proper name...
Still need a proper name or one of these legs in the three legged stool is not as long as the others...
That only one became flesh is also quite singular and specific setting it apart from the other two...
But let’s focus on the proper name first please....
beameup
New member
@beameup
Can you prove your assertion from the New Testament using a comparison of the Hebrew text of Gen 1:2 with the Septuagint version of Gen 1:2? which two versions contain "Ruach Elohim", (transliterated), and "Pneuma Theou", (transliterated), respectively? There are only three occurrences of πνευμα θεου, (anarthrous, no article), in the New Testament, (and only two if you are counting from the T/R and Byzantine family of texts). Since the OP is learning Hebrew perhaps he might be able to confirm whether or not the Hebrew language tolerates an article with a proper noun, (name). Proper nouns do not have the article attached in Hebrew and are already emphatic, (for example "Ruach Elohim" may very well be a proper noun, a name).
That was not the same as what he said before, it is "Shekinah", which really is not found used that way in the Hebrew text, (they say it actually derives from Kabbalah but I do not study Kabbalah).
beameup
New member
The only "proper name" for God is Yeshua (Jesus).
Other terms are descriptive of attributes or titles.
Your tongue included.
Lol, so in other words you cannot prove your assertion, gotcha. As for the rest of your comments and quotes; those things have already been fully expounded and explained, even from the writings of Paul, whom you apparently do not believe.
Genesis 1:2 OG LXX-Septuagint
2 η δε γη ην αορατος και ακατασκευαστος και σκοτος επανω της αβυσσου και πνευμα θεου επεφερετο επανω του υδατος
πνευμα θεου = "Ruach Elohim" (transliterated from the Hebrew text, רוח אלהים)
Romans 8:9 W/H
9 υμεις δε ουκ εστε εν σαρκι αλλα εν πνευματι ειπερ πνευμα θεου οικει εν υμιν ει δε τις πνευμα χριστου ουκ εχει ουτος ουκ εστιν αυτου
πνευμα θεου = πνευμα χριστου = רוח אלהים
beameup
New member
My responses were to Clefty, and were "tongue in cheek" so to speak.
I was not responding to you.
The responses were of attributes and titles... not NAMES.
There is only ONE NAME given among men whereby you must be saved: Jesus
Got it?
jaybird
New member
what bible version is this? i have looked and could not find this translation for the verse. all translation i have found say "Lord".
It's an open forum, got it? But if you wish to be ignored that is fine with me too, got it?
Moreover the above translation, (of Phil 2:10-11), is a false witness and adding to the scripture what is not there, for Paul quotes the Isaiah 45 passage from the Septuagint and it does not contain "Kurios", (which is typically used for the Tetragrammaton Name of the Father), but instead a form of Theos, (God).
Romans 14:11 W/H
11 γεγραπται γαρ ζω εγω λεγει κυριος οτι εμοι καμψει παν γονυ και πασα γλωσσα εξομολογησεται τω θεω
Isaiah 45:23 OG LXX
23 κατ εμαυτου ομνυω η μην εξελευσεται εκ του στοματος μου δικαιοσυνη οι λογοι μου ουκ αποστραφησονται οτι εμοι καμψει παν γονυ και εξομολογησεται πασα γλωσσα τω θεω
beameup
New member
The English translation of the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah (predating the Septuagint by several hundred years):
By myself I have sworn;
from my mouth has gone out in righteousness
a word that shall not return:
‘To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear allegiance. Isaiah 45:23
The Hebrew text that Paul quotes and referred to is no longer available.
The Septuagint "generally" agrees with this missing Hebrew Text (but not always).
The Masoretic Text dates to about 1,000 BC and was tampered with by the unbelieving Jews.
I suggest that you also take the Septuagint "with a grain of salt" as well. Don't be a "Greek Geek".
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord [Kyrios], to the glory of God the Father. - Philippians 2:9-11 (Isaiah 45:23 amplified and clarified by the Holy Spirit).
Kyrios=YHWH
The Hebrew text is right in front of your eyes but it is not properly formatted by the Masoretes. Again, this has all already been explained and expounded. You have everything you need to understand both the Septuagint, (and how they understood the Hebrew text), and therefore also what Paul writes because he follows the principles laid out by those who rendered the Hebrew text into the Septuagint. You and most all of scholarship do not understand how to read the Hebrew text because you and they trust the Masoretes to properly separate the words for you, (and they failed to do so correctly in many places). Think about this: the fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, never knew the Tetragrammaton Name of the Father, (Exo 6:3). That means that everywhere Moses quotes Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob, praying to "YHWH" it is an error in the Masoretic text because they did not properly separate the text: for Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did not know that name and Moses does not lie. You do not quote someone and put words in their mouth that they did not even know.
Ephesians 4:4-10
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling:
5 one Master, one faith, one immersion:
6 one Elohim and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all.
7 But to each one of us was the grace given according to the measure of the gift of Messiah.
8 Therefore he says, "When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men."Psa 68:18
9 Now this, "He ascended," what is it but that he also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.
The Father does not descend or ascend because "the heavens and heavens of the heavens cannot contain Him", (Dt 10:14, 1Kgs 8:27, 2Chr 2:6, 2Chr 6:18), and thus the Father already fills all things: there is nowhere that one may go that He is not already there. Who therefore does Psalm 68:18 speak of? and thereby who does Paul likewise speak of in the above text when he quotes the Psalm? The one of whom Paul speaks is the Meshiah, the Son, who is ever in the bosom of the Father, (at the right hand side).
Ι̅H (the "Nomen Sacrum" for Meshiah) = Yah Elohim (Psalm 68:18)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling:
5 one Master, one faith, one immersion:
6 one Elohim and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all.
7 But to each one of us was the grace given according to the measure of the gift of Messiah.
8 Therefore he says, "When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men."Psa 68:18
9 Now this, "He ascended," what is it but that he also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.
The Father does not descend or ascend because "the heavens and heavens of the heavens cannot contain Him", (Dt 10:14, 1Kgs 8:27, 2Chr 2:6, 2Chr 6:18), and thus the Father already fills all things: there is nowhere that one may go that He is not already there. Who therefore does Psalm 68:18 speak of? and thereby who does Paul likewise speak of in the above text when he quotes the Psalm? The one of whom Paul speaks is the Meshiah, the Son, who is ever in the bosom of the Father, (at the right hand side).
Ι̅H (the "Nomen Sacrum" for Meshiah) = Yah Elohim (Psalm 68:18)
Might very well be...but so might be comforter?
As concerned as scripture is with names and meaning behind them I think the Holy Spirit if indeed it is its own person office entity purpose is deserving of a name...
Unless of course it is the spirit of the Father is why it’s Holy and not merely a spirit...one of those lying ones....
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Acts 26:15 When Paul was knocked off his horse he asked “who are you?” and his question was answered and heard in Hebrew/Aramaic. The English name Jesus was certainly NOT said nor heard and is the ANOTHER name in which salvstion is not found.
Understandable that another gospel is preached in it... one that there is no law or that it has been changed...
Beginning with the third commandment...
To counterfeit the very name we are to remember and use is taking it in vain...great damage has been done by translation...most Christians forget ignore dont know the cultural historical context behind His name...the PR campaign to sell it to Europeans had to make it less jewish and thus even the Sabbath was lost etc...
flintstoned
New member
So if you don't believe that Jesus is also God (in human form), then who do you believe is the Father of Jesus and why do you believe in a virgin birth?