Barbarian chuckles:
Believe it or not, your participation isn't necessary to get a valid sampling of what Americans think.
Believe it or not, your participation isn't necessary to get a valid sampling of what Americans think.
He messed with the wrong person, this time...
- Thread starter The Barbarian
- Start date
Barbarian chuckles:
Believe it or not, your participation isn't necessary to get a valid sampling of what Americans think.
Nope. All those polls that called the 2016 election to within 2 percentage points of the final vote never asked you, and yet they got it precisely right. It's not a matter of what you think. It's merely a mathematical fact that you can get a precise idea of public opinion by accurate sampling of people.
Barbarian observes:
Americans mostly fault Trump and the republicans for their unwillingness to compromise.
Because we live in a representative democracy, and if you want to get anything done, compromise is essential. That's why Trump is such a weak president, and gets very little done, even with control of both houses of Congress. He can't get people to work together; he can't make deals and stick to them.
Americans blame Trump and the republicans for shutting down the government. Rightly so, although the democrats deserve some blame, too.
Nope, and Americans aren't buying your story.
Believe it or not, your participation isn't necessary to get a valid sampling of what Americans think.
Nope. All those polls that called the 2016 election to within 2 percentage points of the final vote never asked you, and yet they got it precisely right. It's not a matter of what you think. It's merely a mathematical fact that you can get a precise idea of public opinion by accurate sampling of people.
Barbarian observes:
Americans mostly fault Trump and the republicans for their unwillingness to compromise.
Because we live in a representative democracy, and if you want to get anything done, compromise is essential. That's why Trump is such a weak president, and gets very little done, even with control of both houses of Congress. He can't get people to work together; he can't make deals and stick to them.
Americans blame Trump and the republicans for shutting down the government. Rightly so, although the democrats deserve some blame, too.
Nope, and Americans aren't buying your story.
On the other hand, everyone disses Trump. Even his own party calls him "racist" and laughs at him.
Paul Ryan denounces Donald Trump's 'textbook racism'
US House Speaker Paul Ryan has denounced Donald Trump's 'textbook racism' after comments made by the presumptive Republican presidential candidate.
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us...ryan-denounces-donald-trump-s-textbook-racism
McConnell publicly ridicules him:
“The political genius on display, of throwing away a seat in the reddest state in America, is hard to ignore,” McConnell, R-Ky., said.
His own secretary of state called him a "(expletive deleted) moron" and refused to deny it when asked.
Trump isn't America; his election isn't just a tragedy for America; it's fast becoming a tragedy for him and his family.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Do you have any evidence that Trump was a draft dodger?
Or would you just rather attack the Commander in Chief even if you have no evidence to back up your claims?
Or would you just rather attack the Commander in Chief even if you have no evidence to back up your claims?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I still get a kick about what crazy Joe Biden said about Obama:
"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
Clean???
Biden's remarks say a lot about what he actually thinks about African-Americans!
He got a "bone spur" diagnosis that magically went away after his draft liablity ended. You figure it out. I know a lot of people from that time who got out of the draft any legal way they could, including the help of a friendly doctor. I personally couldn't square it with my conscience, so I went. Those who did what Trump did will have to deal with their own consciences (if any) but they need to be very quiet when a real patriot like Duckworth is speaking.
Duckworth didn't have to go at all, but did. Trump isn't fit to shine her shoes. Well, he couldn't. She lost both legs in combat.
I know guys like Trump think of patriots like Duckworth as suckers for putting their lives on the line for us. But your behavior shows that you really know what this was about.
I do admit that having served honorably, I'm biased against draft-dodgers like Trump. So, apparently, is Duckworth. Probably more so. I doubt if anyone even took a shot at me personally, and Duckworth went through some very rough combat, losing both of her legs.
So she probably evaluates people like Trump rather harshly.
Oh stop acting like anyone that served in the military is an upright person that can be trusted.
I mean, if Trump had of served in the military would that make him A-OK to you????
No it would not.
You would still try to find some way to discredit his service and make jokes about it because you have fallen for the biased hatred hype of anything concerning Trump.
The Berean
Well-known member
Umm...no. This Senator Tammy Duckworth below. She is a retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel. Her father served in WW II. She has ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War. She flew combat missions in the Iraqi War where she lost her legs when her UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter was blown out the sky by a rocket propelled grenade. The explosion also heavily damaged her right arm. She was decorated with a Purple Heart, an Air Medal, and the Army Commendation Medal. She has fought fought for country and literally gave up her limbs for her country. She is well aware of the plight of the U.S. veterans.
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Perhaps "Jerry Shugart" is unaware that on Friday night, the Democratic Senator from Missouri proposed that members vote to ensure that the military and veterans would continue to receive their checks during a government shutdown - it was Senate Republican Leader McConnell who objected and the vote never took place!
The Republicans needed those military families as unwilling hostages to allow conservative politicians to "wrap themselves in the flag" and promote the false narrative that they are the only Party that cares about past and present members of the military!
Unless you were acting like that, no one here was. I mean Steve Bannon was in the military. Flynn was in the military. So some pretty disreputatble people have been. On the other hand, this particular Lt. Col. volunteered for very dangerous duty and paid a price. Unless you've been there, you need to show some respect.
If he had volunteered for combat at a time when we were losing about 10 helicopters a week, I'd give him his due, just as I did for George H. W. Bush, who flew a very vulnerable torpedo plane into a swarm of Japanese fighters, and was shot down trying to put one into a Japanese carrier.
Bob Dole, trying to save a wounded radio man, exposed himself to direct fire, and received crippling injuries to the extent that the doctors expected him to die. He's as much of a hero as Duckworth.
Trump, as you know, managed to convince a doctor to give him a disability letter (the "bone spur" miraculously went away when his obligation went away)
Nope. Like G.H.W. Bush, if he was a hero, I'd give him his due. Because he's a draft dodger, he gets a different sort of attention.
I gave Trump credit for attacking Syria when they used chemical weapons on rebels, and for continuing the bombing support for militias fighting ISIS. When he started to renege on a few of the crazier things he promised to do, I suggested that he might turn out to be a better president than people expected him to be. A few other times. Would you like me to look them up and show them to you? When he's done something right, I've praised him.
Yes.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Given her credentials it would seem to be you who has a lack of respect.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So you approve of her accusing Trump of being a draft dodger without any proof?
The end justifies the means, right?
That is the motto of the self-righteous, the politically correct!
Actions speak louder that words and given "The Donald's" patriotic rhetoric, respect for the flag and fascination with all thing military, including surrounding himself in the White House by generals, one might have assumed that he would have volunteered to join the military to protect the world from communism during the Vietnam War!
Trump also spent his high school years enrolled the New York Military Academy, a private boarding school, followed by 4 educational deferments and a medical deferment - attributed to "heel spurs!"
Fast forward 58 years, we are now being told that the President is the very picture of health - there was no attempt to check bone spurs despite extensive time "The Donald" devotes to golf!
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You have to consider how, by the time of the Tet Offensive (which North Vietnam lost, but made no difference) everyone knew it was a pointless war that we were going to lose unless we were willing to kill a huge number of Vietnamese people. No one wanted to be forced to take part in that war, maybe dying for nothing but face-saving on the part of those who put us into it.
I get that. And everyone knew there were doctors who'd come up with something that could get one deferred. A lot of guys had money and found ways to do it, particularly, if they had family connections. I understand why Trump didn't want to go. I didn't either. But like Trump, I had no honorable way to avoid it. He made his choice; I made mine.
The downside was that I could have been killed, and I lost a few years of my life. The downside for Trump is that people who did honorably serve, have little respect for his draft-dodging. Duckworth is just saying what a lot of American veterans of that war are thinking.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
At the time Trump was called up it was very, very difficult to get out of serving based on health problems. I had a pre-induction physical which I passed but I did not have to go in at that time because I was in college.
But after I finished college I was called to take another physical and despite the fact that I had some physical problems then and had doctors who testified to those problems I still had to take the physical.
So just because Trump got off because of bone spurs does not mean that he really had health issues which disqualified him for service.
Anyone who argues otherwise knows nothing about what was going on during the late sixties and early seventies in regard to induction physicals because by that time the doctors had seen every trick in the book. Making assumptions about Trump in this regard is nothing but a smear tactic.
Of course, with the self-righteous (the politically correct bunch) the end justifies the means!
Of course you offered no proof that Trump dodged the draft so all you prove is that in your eyes the end justifies the means.
The fact that his "spur" miraculously disappeared after his draft exposure ended, suggests that he didn't.
You apparently weren't there, then. The children of the wealthy rarely went. Some, like George W. Bush, got put at the head of the line for a national guard slot. Some, like Trump, got a doctor to write a good letter about "bone spurs."
Bush, other than failing to show up for his monthly meetings, at least signed up. Trump showed no physical difficulties before or after his deferment. It was cowardly, but it kept him out of the war.
Yep.
Other than noting that his "spur" showed up just in time to keep him out of the draft, and then "healed up" perfectly after his exposure ended. But for him, the ends justified the means.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
All you do is make assertions and nothing but assertions in a failed attempt to pour scorn upon our Commander in Chief.
Besides that, the conversation resolved around the Government being shut down and the Demos threw in the towel. Let me ask you one thing. What actions has Trump made as President which you think were wrong?