Has the Law been done away with?

[TweetyBird]

People do, and I am among them. The feast is to be kept in Jerusalem.

Are you in Israel?

Not at all. I don't see what you are saying. I have no problem with Judaism, Jesus Christ, or the Talmud.

Judaism is the Talmud. The Talmud is not about Jesus Christ, it's about the traditions of men, and rejects Jesus Christ as the Messiah. You don't seem to understand your own religion.

I don't see what you are talking about.

I think you misunderstand. You can be Jewish without being Messianic, with belief in God obeying God's commands having a Jewish identity and I say even believing in Jesus (Yeshua) as the Messiah. It is possible to be just Jewish and not attend or attend a Messianic Congregation whether it is Jewish without Messianic doctrine or if Messianic beliefs are what are apparent.

You said you were not Jewish to begin with. In order to convert to being a Jew, you have to convert to Judaism - Talmudic Christ rejecting Judaism, and must reject Jesus. If you were not converted by Jewish Rabbi - Yeshiva trained with a smicha - and asked directly to deny Christ, you cannot become a Jew.

This was after Christ.

There are no proselytes in Christ.

Judaism is Judaism, Talmudic Rabbinical Judaism or not. First century Judaism is an idea I have before knowing anything about Rabbinical Judaism, Talmud or not.

There was no "Judaism" in the first century. Judaism is a term that refers to the religion based on the Talmud, which was not compiled until 200-500AD and then added to and became many volumes of interpretations, instructions, and commentary.

Christianity is not a new religion. It is one form of Judaism with belief in Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah (the Christ). Christianity is a sect of Judaism. There is also the way that some called a sect.

No, Christianity is not a sect of Judaism. Judaism rejects Christ. Christianity is a brand new religion based on the cross of Christ and His new commandment, not on Moses.

Acts 24:14 NASB - 14 "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;

That was part of Paul's testimony of his life before Christ.

tweety:You cannot be a convert to Judaism and convert to Christ.


jacob: I believe you are confused. What you are saying does not even make sense.

It would not make sense to you because you don't know the difference. If you convert to Judaism, you cannot be a Christian.

No, you are wrong.
You do not understand. What a person believes and how they live according to God's Law has nothing to do with the negative things you have to say.

If you are a Gentile who has converted to Judaism, it certainly does matter what they believe and how they live. Talmudic Judaism in an interpretation of the Law of Moses. It differs with what is written in most of its conclusions. The Talmud refers to itself as having higher authority than the written word of God.

I have no idea what you are saying.

You can't pay to be a part of either Judaism or Christianity.

Yes, one can pay to be converted to Judaism. No, one cannot pay to be a Christian.

I see no disagreement of the Talmud with the Bible.

The Talmud is not the Bible. It rejects Christ, it teaches a different law than what is written because the Mosaic Law cannot be obeyed or kept since the destruction of the Temple in 70ad. The Talmud has supplanted the Law of Moses into its own Rabbincal system of law and traditions.

If you do not understand Torah and the Bible the Talmud will likely not avail much to you. I don't know why you are talking about the Talmud.

The Talmud is not the Bible. The Torah or Law of Moses is the old covenant. We are in the New Covenant. The Talmud IS IS IS Judaism. Judaism is the halacha of the Talmud.

My observance of Torah and my believe in Jesus as the Christ have nothing to do with any false pretenses you may imagine.

What I think is that you have made up your own religion and are using terms to describe it that are redefining the terms to your own liking. I don't think you understand what you have done, to be honest.

 

[Jacob]

Are you in Israel?

Judaism is the Talmud. The Talmud is not about Jesus Christ, it's about the traditions of men, and rejects Jesus Christ as the Messiah. You don't seem to understand your own religion.

The Talmud is not the Bible. The Torah or Law of Moses is the old covenant. We are in the New Covenant. The Talmud IS IS IS Judaism. Judaism is the halacha of the Talmud.

The written Torah and the oral Torah. The TaNaKh (Scripture) is the Torah, the Neviim, and the Kethuvim. This is the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings. The New Testament is also inspired by God, God-Breathed. Have you studied the Mishna? There are six divisions. Judaism existed before the Talmud.

What I think is that you have made up your own religion and are using terms to describe it that are redefining the terms to your own liking. I don't think you understand what you have done, to be honest.

 

[TweetyBird]

Yeshua HaMashiach. You can believe this (that Jesus is the Christ) even if you are not Jewish.

Yes.

 

[TweetyBird]

The written Torah and the oral Torah. The TaNaKh (Scripture) is the Torah, the Neviim, and the Kethuvim. This is the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings. The New Testament is also inspired by God, God-Breathed. Have you studied the Mishna? There are six divisions. Judaism existed before the Talmud.

The Mishna was written about 150ad and is part of the Talmud. There is no oral Torah in the Bible. The oral Torah is the Talmud - a tradition not found in the Bible. The Mishah is not the Bible and is not inspired or God-breathed.

 

[Jacob]

The Mishna was written about 150ad and is part of the Talmud. There is no oral Torah in the Bible. The oral Torah is the Talmud - a tradition not found in the Bible. The Mishah is not the Bible and is not inspired or God-breathed.

The Mishna came before the Talmud. Then you can say that it is part of the Talmud.

I believe you are saying that the oral law was written down.

 

[TweetyBird]

The Mishna came before the Talmud. Then you can say that it is part of the Talmud.

I believe you are saying that the oral law was written down.

According to Judaism, the tradition is that an oral law was given at Mt Sinai and handed down orally until the Rabbinic Talmud was compiled. There is no oral law in the Biblical text. All the commandments that God gave to Moses for Israel were written down. Per God.

The Mishna was written starting in 150-200 [differing dates]. Then the Talmud began to be compiled in about 200AD which included the Mishna.

This decline in the number of knowledgeable Jews seems to have been a decisive factor in Rabbi Judah the Prince's decision around the year 200 C.E. to record in writing the Oral Law. For centuries, Judaism's leading rabbis had resisted writing down the Oral Law. Teaching the law orally, the rabbis knew, compelled students to maintain close relationships with teachers, and they considered teachers, not books, to be the best conveyors of the Jewish tradition. But with the deaths of so many teachers in the failed revolts, Rabbi Judah apparently feared that the Oral Law would be forgotten unless it were written down.

In the Mishna, the name for the sixty-three tractates in which Rabbi Judah set down the Oral Law, Jewish law is systematically codified, unlike in the Torah. For example, if a person wanted to find every law in the Torah about the Sabbath, he would have to locate scattered references in Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers. Indeed, in order to know everything the Torah said on a given subject, one either had to read through all of it or know its contents by heart. Rabbi Judah avoided this problem by arranging the Mishna topically. All laws pertaining to the Sabbath were put into one tractate called Shabbat (Hebrew for "Sabbath").

a larger "order" called Mo'ed (Hebrew for "holiday"), which is one of six orders that comprise the Mishna. Some of the other tractates in Mo'ed specify the Oral Laws of Passover (Pesachim); Purim (Megillah); Rosh ha*Shana; Yom Kippur (Yoma); and Sukkot.

The first of the six orders is called Zera'im (Seeds), and deals with the agricultural rules of ancient Palestine, particularly with the details of the produce that were to be presented as offerings at the Temple in Jerusalem. The most famous tractate in Zera'im, however, Brakhot (Blessings) has little to do with agriculture. It records laws concerning different blessings and when they are to be recited.

Another order, called Nezikin (Damages), contains ten tractates summarizing Jewish civil and criminal law.

Another order, Nashim (Women), deals with issues between the sexes, including both laws of marriage, Kiddushin, and of divorce, Gittin.

A fifth order, Kodashim, outlines the laws of sacrifices and ritual slaughter. The sixth order, Taharot, contains the laws of purity and impurity.

One of the Mishna's sixty*three tractates contains no laws at all. It is called Pirkei Avot (usually translated as Ethics of the Fathers), and it is the "Bartlett's" of the rabbis, in which their most famous sayings and proverbs are recorded.

During the centuries following Rabbi Judah's editing of the Mishna, it was studied exhaustively by generation after generation of rabbis. Eventually, some of these rabbis wrote down their discussions and commentaries on the Mishna's laws in a series of books known as the Talmud. The rabbis of Palestine edited their discussions of the Mishna about the year 400: Their work became known as the Palestinian Talmud (in Hebrew, Talmud Yerushalmi, which literally means "Jerusalem Talmud").

More than a century later, some of the leading Babylonian rabbis compiled another editing of the discussions on the Mishna. By then, these deliberations had been going on some three hundred years. The Babylon edition was far more extensive than its Palestinian counterpart, so that the Babylonian Talmud (Talmud Bavli) became the most authoritative compilation of the Oral Law. When people speak of studying "the Talmud," they almost invariably mean the Bavli rather than the Yerushalmi.

The Talmud's discussions are recorded in a consistent format. A law from the Mishna is cited, which is followed by rabbinic deliberations on its meaning. The Mishna and the rabbinic discussions (known as the Gemara) comprise the Talmud, although in Jewish life the terms Gemara and Talmud usually are used interchangeably.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/talmud_&_mishna.html

 

[Jacob]

According to Judaism, the tradition is that an oral law was given at Mt Sinai and handed down orally until the Rabbinic Talmud was compiled. There is no oral law in the Biblical text. All the commandments that God gave to Moses for Israel were written down. Per God.

The Mishna was written starting in 150-200 [differing dates]. Then the Talmud began to be compiled in about 200AD which included the Mishna.

The following may help with your study of Torah and the Jewish Library.

See the Course: Scroll Down (A Tour of the Jewish Library).

 

[jamie]

According to Ex, Lev, Deut, Josh, 1 & 2 Kings, 2 Chron, Ezra, Nehemiah, Daniel, Malachi, Isaiah, Matt, Mark, Luke, John, 1 Cor, Hebrews, Galatians, Psalms, etc - the Law of Moses is the old covenant aka the Book of the Law, the 10 commandments, all the statues, laws, and commandments given to Moses by God.

The Father's covenant preceded the Book of the Law and was not part of that book.

 

[TweetyBird]

The Father's covenant preceded the Book of the Law and was not part of that book.

The Book of the Law is part of the covenant.

Deuteronomy 29:21
And the Lord shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

1 Chron 16
He is the Lord our God;
his judgments are in all the earth.
15
Be ye mindful always of his covenant;
the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
16
even of the covenant which he made with Abraham,
and of his oath unto Isaac;
17
and hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law,
and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
18
saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan,
the lot of your inheritance;

Isa 24
The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof;
because they have transgressed the laws,
changed the ordinance,broken the everlasting covenant.

2 Kings 23
And the king sent, and they gathered unto him all the elders of Judah and of Jerusalem. 2 And the king went up into the house of the Lord, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and he read in their ears all the words of the book of the covenant which was found in the house of the Lord.

3 And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the Lord, to walk after the Lord, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.

21 And the king commanded all the people, saying, Keep the passover unto the Lord your God, as it is written in the book of this covenant.

24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord. 25 And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the Lord with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him.

2 Chronicles 34:31
And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the Lord, to walk after the Lord, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant which are written in this book.

 

[jamie]

The Book of the Law is part of the covenant.

Was it placed in the ark of the covenant?

 

[TweetyBird]

Was it placed in the ark of the covenant?

According to the verses that I provided, the Book of the Law was considered the covenant.

Deuteronomy 31:26
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Deut 30
8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the Lord, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day. 9 And the Lord thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the Lord will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers: 10 if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 in that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20 that thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

 

[jamie]

According to the verses that I provided, the Book of the Law was considered the covenant.

Galatians 3:10: "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the Book of the Law to do them.'"

Galatians 3:19: "What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a Mediator."

There is only one Mediator between God and men.

Deuteronomy 31:26: "Take this Book of the Law and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God that it may be there as a witness against you."

The Book of the Law was placed beside the ark of the covenant but not in the ark.

What was in the ark of the covenant?

Deuteronomy 10:4-5: "And He wrote on the tablets according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments, which the LORD had spoken to you in the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly, and the LORD gave them to me. Then I turned and came down from the mountain and put the tablets in the ark which I had made, and there they are just as the LORD commanded me."

The Book of the Law was placed beside the ark of the covenant, but the two stone tablets were placed in the ark.

The Book of the Law was only for the people of Israel and was not part of the Abrahamic covenant which included Gentiles.

 

[Ben Masada]

God is Spirit. God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God.

Again, you cannot distinguish HaShem from His being a Spirit. When Jesus said that God is a Spirit in John 4:24, he never meant that God is not of an absolute Oneness. Don't forget that when Jesus was asked about the greatest of the commandments of the Law, he answered with the Shema. HaShem is One and the Only Lord. (Mark 12:29)

 

[Jacob]

Again, you cannot distinguish HaShem from His being a Spirit. When Jesus said that God is a Spirit in John 4:24, he never meant that God is not of an absolute Oneness. Don't forget that when Jesus was asked about the greatest of the commandments of the Law, he answered with the Shema. HaShem is One and the Only Lord. (Mark 12:29)

HaShem is a Spirit and Jesus knew the Shema as do I.

 

[TweetyBird]

Galatians 3:10: "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the Book of the Law to do them.'"

Galatians 3:19: "What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a Mediator."

There is only one Mediator between God and men.

Deuteronomy 31:26: "Take this Book of the Law and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God that it may be there as a witness against you."

The Book of the Law was placed beside the ark of the covenant but not in the ark.

What was in the ark of the covenant?

Deuteronomy 10:4-5: "And He wrote on the tablets according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments, which the LORD had spoken to you in the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly, and the LORD gave them to me. Then I turned and came down from the mountain and put the tablets in the ark which I had made, and there they are just as the LORD commanded me."

The Book of the Law was placed beside the ark of the covenant, but the two stone tablets were placed in the ark.

The Book of the Law was only for the people of Israel and was not part of the Abrahamic covenant which included Gentiles.

I showed you with numerous verses that the Book of the Law is the Mosaic Covenant that included the 10 commandments. The Abrahamic Covenant was included in the Mosaic Covenant - it was all one covenant as shown throughout the OT and the NT.

 

[Elia]

Christians have the law they are to follow written on their hearts and minds and not in the pages of a book.

Bs"d

What's the use of heaving the law "written on your heart" if you don't do the law??


"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination."
Prov 28:9

 

[Elia]

There are no laws or rules for the Christian. Where there is law there is judgment. This is why the law has been abolished for the Christian, Ephesians 2:15. The Holy Spirit has replaced the law. We now live by Spirit and not the letter of the law, which kills, 2 Corinthians 3:6.

Bs"d

So Christians are totally lawless, and can do whatever they feel like.


"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination."
Prov 28:9

 

[Elia]

Made up.

Bs"d

That's what JC said:

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"
Matthew 5

Looks very clear to me, not a word French in there.


"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination."
Prov 28:9

 

[Elia]

Being circumcised makes no one a fool.

Bs"d

God's commandment of male-circumcision saves MANY MILLIONS of lives.

For the finer details look here: https://sites.google.com/site/circlifesaver/



"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination."
Prov 28:9

 

[Elia]

Being circumcised makes you a mutilator of the flesh, according to Paul.

Philippians 3:2 Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh.

Bs"d

And why exactly should we worry about the opinion of Paul?

God commanded male-circumcision. So Paul is calling God an evil dog??


"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination."
Prov 28:9