Grace working?

[SimpleMan77]

Salvation is a gift of God's grace.

Doing what God wants us to do with salvation is works.

Ephesians 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Salvation or being born again is similar to being born the first time. We've got it, but to make the best use of life, whether just body and soul, or after being born again, body and soul and spirit, we must learn how to mature, to reach what Ephesians 4:15 states.

Or as God put it in I Timothy 2:4

we are to receive salvation then learn the knowledge (knowledge by experience or knowledge that comes from doing) of the truth.

It takes work to rightly divide the word of truth and to apply it rightly divided. II Timothy 2:15

And similar to natural life, it isn't designed to be static. If you never start using your muscles (scientifically defined as "work") you will die. The human body is designed so that no movement = death after a time.
The same spiritually. Your works didn't save you, and in fact had nothing to do with your spiritual conception. However, you were "created unto good works". If you choose spiritual paralyzation you will die spiritually.


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[Zeke]

To submit is to surrender.

2 Cor. 12:9

Jesus either DID and "It IS Finished"...

Or He Did Not.

Do...

Or DONE

Slave... or son

Patterns are for what Exodus 25:40? 1Cor 3:16! Jesus being a pattern for his fellow divine seeds to emulate not make an idol or a sacrifice of Moloch to which is you're god of flesh and blood provided for you by Rome which makes for feet of iron and clay.

 

[oatmeal]

And similar to natural life, it isn't designed to be static. If you never start using your muscles (scientifically defined as "work") you will die. The human body is designed so that no movement = death after a time.
The same spiritually. Your works didn't save you, and in fact had nothing to do with your spiritual conception. However, you were "created unto good works". If you choose spiritual paralyzation you will die spiritually.


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Yes, that is a good analogy.

We live our salvation by doing works that strengthens God's grace in our lifestyle.

 

[daqq]

And... I indeed know... what you believe.

You have no clue what I believe, what I understand, what I know, or even what my experiences in my walk with Messiah might be. If you did you would not be spouting off about 2Cor12 which you no nothing about because of your own lack of experience in your walk. You have not been there and you therefore have no clue what grace is even about in that passage. Have you been to Paradise or the third heaven? Did you see wonders in the heavens above, and signs in the earth beneath? blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke? the sun turned to darkness and the moon to blood like those in Acts 2? Is that when you called upon the Name of YHWH? Sorry to inform you but you are not going to get there the way it stands now because at this point it is painfully obvious that you would fail that test; and the Father is longsuffering, not willing that any should perish. You speak of the "gospel war cry" in this context and yet you have no idea what the Gospel is according to Paul actually concerns.

Hi SM77,

You'll find that the tail end of Romans 7 binds to 2 Cor. 12.

2 Cor. 12:9 is the gospel war cry and it brings hate and admonishment to this very day.

There are factors to remember when reading Paul.

1) He was under the threat of death and received beatings for his ministry of Grace... as prescribed by Jesus.
2) He was a Pharisee of Pharisees that had to learn that "His Grace is sufficient"
3) Paul used carnal lessons to convey spiritual truths... just like Jesus
4) His grace is "More then sufficient"

Are we on the same page?

No one can save his soul in that day and hour; if you seek to save your soul you will destroy it. The only way to overcome in that hour is lose your soul; and you do not have it in you at this point because you love yourself too much not to bow to the sword of your own twin goat Baal. If you do not repent and begin to heed and do the Testimony of Messiah, (which will put you on the correct path toward that unknown day), you will never know the grace of Elohim: and that is the only Way, and Elohim will not be mocked.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

You have no clue what I believe, what I understand, what I know, or even what my experiences in my walk with Messiah might be. If you did you would not be spouting off about 2Cor12 which you no nothing about because of your own lack of experience in your walk. You have not been there and you therefore have no clue what grace is even about in that passage. Have you been to Paradise or the third heaven? Did you see wonders in the heavens above, and signs in the earth beneath? blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke? the sun turned to darkness and the moon to blood like those in Acts 2? Is that when you called upon the Name of YHWH? Sorry to inform you but you are not going to get there the way it stands now because at this point it is painfully obvious that you would fail that test; and the Father is longsuffering, not willing that any should perish. You speak of the "gospel war cry" in this context and yet you have no idea what the Gospel is according to Paul actually concerns.



No one can save his soul in that day and hour; if you seek to save your soul you will destroy it. The only way to overcome in that hour is lose your soul; and you do not have it in you at this point because you love yourself too much not to bow to the sword of your own twin goat Baal. If you do not repent and begin to heed and do the Testimony of Messiah, (which will put you on the correct path toward that unknown day), you will never know the grace of Elohim: and that is the only Way, and Elohim will not be mocked.

Daqq,

I usually don't say this... but what drugs are you on?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Patterns are for what Exodus 25:40? 1Cor 3:16! Jesus being a pattern for his fellow divine seeds to emulate not make an idol or a sacrifice of Moloch to which is you're god of flesh and blood provided for you by Rome which makes for feet of iron and clay.

Zeke,

Are you and Daqq doing the same drugs together?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

And similar to natural life, it isn't designed to be static. If you never start using your muscles (scientifically defined as "work") you will die. The human body is designed so that no movement = death after a time.
The same spiritually. Your works didn't save you, and in fact had nothing to do with your spiritual conception. However, you were "created unto good works". If you choose spiritual paralyzation you will die spiritually.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

What does Romans 4:4 mean to you?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Zeke,

Are you and Daqq doing the same drugs together?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

And similar to natural life, it isn't designed to be static. If you never start using your muscles (scientifically defined as "work") you will die. The human body is designed so that no movement = death after a time.
The same spiritually. Your works didn't save you, and in fact had nothing to do with your spiritual conception. However, you were "created unto good works". If you choose spiritual paralyzation you will die spiritually.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[daqq]

Daqq,

I usually don't say this... but what drugs are you on?

There was a time when I thought just like you do now, and I was that way most of my Christian life from when I was a teenager, until the things written in scripture actually began happening to me. It was then that Elohim awakened me, and set me straight and right with Him, after nearly thirty years of thinking like you do right now; imagining in the vain machinations of my own imagination to have been saved by a one-time sinners prayer from when I was a teenager. For about twenty of the nearly thirty years I also had become an alcoholic and ended up an alcoholic Christian, and I do mean drunk every night of my life for about twenty years: but now I am sober since the Master converted me, and as I said, I know for a fact that Elohim will not be mocked; and you simply do not actually believe what the scripture says because you have never experienced any of it. You can only understand it by way of a head knowledge and what your carnal mind thinks that it is supposed to mean. You are groping in darkness because you do not walk with the Son but rather some other son that you have invented. But those such as myself and my family, knowing the terror and the fear of the Lord, we therefore persuade men. U dunno nutin like u tink u du. :chuckle:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

There was a time when I thought just like you do now, and I was that way most of my Christian life from when I was a teenager, until the things written in scripture actually began happening to me. It was then that Elohim awakened me, and set me straight and right with Him, after nearly thirty years of thinking like you do right now; imagining in the vain machinations of my own imagination to have been saved by a one-time sinners prayer from when I was a teenager. For about twenty of the nearly thirty years I also had become an alcoholic and ended up an alcoholic Christian, and I do mean drunk every night of my life for about twenty years: but now I am sober since the Master converted me, and as I said, I know for a fact that Elohim will not be mocked; and you simply do not actually believe what the scripture says because you have never experienced any of it. You can only understand it by way of a head knowledge and what your carnal mind thinks that it is supposed to mean. You are groping in darkness because you do not walk with the Son but rather some other son that you have invented. But those such as myself and my family, knowing the terror and the fear of the Lord, we therefore persuade men. U dunno nutin like u tink u du. :chuckle:

Congratulations on your sobriety.

Now if you can achieve theological sobriety... all will be awesome!

 

[Robert Pate]

So much confusion... Grace, works, both??

Of course we are saved by grace. Who deserves to be in the presence of God; to be filled with a Holy God with such Holiness we can not fathom on this side of Heaven?

Ok I found grace, I found God. Do I need to work? No! Submit to God and He will work through you. His grace will work through you!

Are you filled with His grace? Its easy to tell... Is Christ's love and light shining through you? Grace working!

1 Corinthians 15:10
"But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me."

There are two different meanings for the word "Grace".

The Catholic interpretation of the word "grace" means that it is the virtues of Jesus Christ in the believer. I don't believe that is correct. The word "grace" means God's unmerited favor towards fallen man. An example would be, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. This is the grace of God. This grace is the grace that Paul was talking about when he said, "For by grace are you saved through faith" Ephesians 2:8.

 

[daqq]

Congratulations on your sobriety.

Now if you can achieve theological sobriety... all will be awesome!

Again you reveal by what comes forth from your mouth that you have no clue what you speak of: the outward physical drunkard is not genuinely healed until the spiritual drunkenness and fornication is purged and rooted out from within. You have the process completely reversed. And when you say, "All will be awesome", you again reveal that in your judgment of others you are comparing them to yourself and your own vain imagery of what a person is supposed to think, believe, and be. You do therefore imagine yourself to be as God in the machinations of your vain imagination whether you even realize it or not. You cannot know what "theological sobriety" truly is if you have not experienced the Word in your daily walk, but rather, only read about what that walk is supposed to be like in and with the Word. As I said, you have nothing more than a head knowledge because you do not have the walk. If you had the walk you would not even be here judging others on a daily basis as you do. And you only do that to those who do not agree with your vain imagination concerning what the scripture is supposed to mean. You neither know grace nor the Spirit of Grace.

 

[SimpleMan77]

Grace working?

What does Romans 4:4 mean to you?

You can keep the law of Moses (or any other law) to the letter, and you'll never earn salvation. That comes through one thing and one thing only - faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Once you believe you must follow after God, and walk "in the Spirit". The "no condemnation" status of Romans 8:1 is to those who are walking after the Spirit, minding the things of the Spirit.
Only those who are birthed in the Spirit, then are led by the Spirit are the children of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.
Paul said that he was very aware that, if he chose to not keep his human nature in submission to the will of God, that God would discard him - he'd become a cast-away.
That's why I'll say until I no longer have breath that you have to accept the entire scriptures, not only select verses.


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[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

You can keep the law of Moses (or any other law) to the letter, and you'll never earn salvation. That comes through one thing and one thing only - faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Once you believe you must follow after God, and walk "in the Spirit". The "no condemnation" status of Romans 8:1 is to those who are walking after the Spirit, minding the things of the Spirit.
Only those who are birthed in the Spirit, then are led by the Spirit are the children of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.
Paul said that he was very aware that, if he chose to not keep his human nature in submission to the will of God, that God would discard him - he'd become a cast-away.
That's why I'll say until I no longer have breath that you have to accept the entire scriptures, not only select verses.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

I can give an Amen! ... Amen.

 

[Zeke]

Zeke,

Are you and Daqq doing the same drugs together?

The drugs you are on no longer interest me, the Roman drug of the human sacrifice that gave the world a carnal christ motif which connects all traditionalist believer together even though they have multitudes of doctrines, you all have been programmed to follow their carnal christ "outside you" Galatians 4:1, and that does sound foolish to you I know being a futurist carnal cloud watcher, but the temple which is in "you" is the only one scripture is about Luke 17:20-21, Acts 17:24......................2Cor 3:6, Galatians 1:12.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

"Do I need to work? No! Submit to God"

What does "Submit to God" mean according to you?
Can you please describe and explain how you "submit to God"?

You turn to Jesus Christ humbly as Lord and Savior. Surrendering control of your life to Him not metaphorically, but practically through fellowship, relationship and intimacy with Him through the Holy Spirit and His Word.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Yes it is grace working, but it really felt like excruciatingly hard work to Paul. If you don't think so read 2 Cor 12.


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2 Corinthians 12:10
"That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

Hardships and persecution bring more humility, weakness and recognized need of Christ which in turn by His strength we are stronger.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Salvation is a gift of God's grace.

Doing what God wants us to do with salvation is works.

Ephesians 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Salvation or being born again is similar to being born the first time. We've got it, but to make the best use of life, whether just body and soul, or after being born again, body and soul and spirit, we must learn how to mature, to reach what Ephesians 4:15 states.

Or as God put it in I Timothy 2:4

we are to receive salvation then learn the knowledge (knowledge by experience or knowledge that comes from doing) of the truth.

It takes work to rightly divide the word of truth and to apply it rightly divided. II Timothy 2:15

"Doing what God wants us to do" by God is grace working in us, having effect in us.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

There are two different meanings for the word "Grace".

The Catholic interpretation of the word "grace" means that it is the virtues of Jesus Christ in the believer. I don't believe that is correct. The word "grace" means God's unmerited favor towards fallen man. An example would be, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. This is the grace of God. This grace is the grace that Paul was talking about when he said, "For by grace are you saved through faith" Ephesians 2:8.

Its only by unmerrited favor that we can be filled with Christ to cause the effect it had on Paul and those His grace fills.