Eagles Wings
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How does an un-believer discern this?
ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal
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Sonnet
New member
Fruit perhaps.
Eagles Wings
New member
I don't wish to ignore you, Sonnet, as I am not in the least irritated. Perhaps you'd like me to ignore you.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
All who were scared looked.
Sonnet
New member
Perhaps your argument is with Paul who quotes Deut 30:11ff.
Your source for such reasoning?
Essentially you are suggesting that all those who don't agree with you, even if they claim faith, aren't true believers.
And you are definitely a believer?
Already addressed.
Where does it say God did not enable man in such a way?
Sonnet
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I don't wish to ignore you, Sonnet, as I am not in the least irritated. Perhaps you'd like me to ignore you.
I'm fine too.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Another point you haven't considered, Sonnet. If you are capable of cooperating with God for your salvation, then you have no excuse whatsoever. Get to it. Cooperate with God and be saved instead of all this self-agrandizing posturing about soteriology.
Get saved now or shut up. Or declare your permanent rejection of Christ and of the one true and living God. Enough of this cat and mouse passive superiority. Help God save you today without another word, and tell all others to do so, also.
Choose Christ. Why would you not? Is Jesus not good enough for you? Not enough suffering? Not enough blood? Too much sin in Him, perhaps? Was His atonement sufficient for you or not? Let's make this very personal and about you instead of all the shenanigans.
Why do you not choose God, oh mighty hyper-willed Synergistic one of cooperative power and sovereignty? What stands in your way? Repent on your own. Believe by yourself. Get to gettin'. Cooperate away.
Why have you not? Why will you not? Too prideful? Too good? Why?
Get saved now or shut up. Or declare your permanent rejection of Christ and of the one true and living God. Enough of this cat and mouse passive superiority. Help God save you today without another word, and tell all others to do so, also.
Choose Christ. Why would you not? Is Jesus not good enough for you? Not enough suffering? Not enough blood? Too much sin in Him, perhaps? Was His atonement sufficient for you or not? Let's make this very personal and about you instead of all the shenanigans.
Why do you not choose God, oh mighty hyper-willed Synergistic one of cooperative power and sovereignty? What stands in your way? Repent on your own. Believe by yourself. Get to gettin'. Cooperate away.
Why have you not? Why will you not? Too prideful? Too good? Why?
Sonnet
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Nonetheless provision was made for those that may have decided that Moses was a crazy.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Then it's Monergism if the Synergism was enabled by God. Good grief.
Sonnet
New member
Good question. Probably not appropriate for this thread.
Perhaps I am a believer. I sometimes feel that way.
Sonnet
New member
'self-agrandizing posturing about soteriology'
Seriously?
You are way off topic and wasting energy with this. Your claims about scripture need challenging PPS and I may do so.
How about you address those posts you've ignored?
Very poor.
The difference between our faith and every other belief system is the difference between "advice" and "news". Yeshua didn't just come to give advice. He came to bear our debt, to pay for the penalty of our sins (the wages of sin is death), so that we could be free to forgive one another as he forgave us. Its not advice that is the message of the bible, but it is news, good news. The news that God has intervened on our behalf, and has provided forgiveness for our sins.
We are beings that need unconditional all accepting love. Our problem is that none of us know how to give this kind of love because all of our love is conditional in some way and is self serving. But God who is the embodiment of love, and who does not need love, became a willing sacrifice and gave his life as a ransom for sin. Why? Because we needed love. And so that we could receive the kind of love we as beings so desperately needed - unconditional, accepting love and so that we could become the kind of people He created us to be.
It's not what we can do for God but what He has done for us. He entered "our world," He took on
"our humanity," He bore "our sins," He died "our death, "He was resurrected for "our life," He's coming again for "our glorification."
Paul in his letter to the Romans is urging us on the basis of all that he taught on, on the basis of all that has been done, he urges us to become living sacrifices:
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:1, 2 KJV)
"therefore" meaning all Paul taught concerning grace and mercy, we have become thru Christ the objects of God's omnipotent, eternal love.
If we have not understood all that the mercies of God has done, if we have not understood doctrinally and theologically deep enough, all that Messiah has accomplished for us, then we have become useless to him. God is calling us to live our lives as living sacrifices unto him. Our problem is, we are so prideful that we are not willing to give up anything for others. When a sacrifice was laid upon the altar there was a great deal of suffering involved, the animal experienced pain and suffering. What are we willing to give up? What are we willing to place upon the altar? So that we can become a blessing to others, and become servants of the Most High God?
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1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Guarantee you none of em thought that.
They seen and heard too many hollerin' for God to help them to no avail.
God showed them the need of a cure by sending the snakes.
God provided the cure.
Sonnet
New member
Yet the Israelites were a stiff-necked people who were often rebellious.
In the unlikely event that one of them did not look - even so, the serpent was lifted up for them - provision was made.
Sonnet
New member
Scriptures like Matthew 24:34 make me doubt Jesus.
The Calvinists are right about election to salvation but go beyond what is written by claiming that the atonement was limited to only the elect. Because they believe in limited atonement they believe God predestined the lost for hell. That too is not supported by scripture.
God in His work of election decided to save some of the mass of humanity and some He decided to pass over.
The elected ones are elected according to His good pleasure and not because of a decision made on the part of the elect's confession of faith.
However, God placed a self imposed limitation on His divine sovereignty in that in order to be saved the elect first must believe the gospel.
However, because man can not exercise his will to believe the gospel without the help of God, God provides divine enablement for the elect to exercise their will against their rebellious nature and believe and accept God's free gift of salvation.
That is how faith is not credited as meritorious in any way.
The opposite view is that God elects based on knowing whom would believe the gospel beforehand. This view is a total hand grenade thrown into the free grace salvation because salvation becomes determined by man's choice. And that choice cannot be made by man because man is utterly and completely lost in sin.
In this the Calvinists are right. Where they go wrong is when they try and force an explanation to the question of how does man's part of believing harmonize with God's divine sovereignty. Their logical conclusion (not supported by scripture) is that the elect were never lost, and were always saved
even before they believed.
That sounds logical and I might have believed that if I did not study the scriptures that leave man with difficult questions that are not answered by the word.
It does not matter what makes the most sense to the obedient servant of God, it only matters what the scriptures say on any given subject even if it does not make sense in this life.
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God in His work of election decided to save some of the mass of humanity and some He decided to pass over.
The elected ones are elected according to His good pleasure and not because of a decision made on the part of the elect's confession of faith.
However, God placed a self imposed limitation on His divine sovereignty in that in order to be saved the elect first must believe the gospel.
However, because man can not exercise his will to believe the gospel without the help of God, God provides divine enablement for the elect to exercise their will against their rebellious nature and believe and accept God's free gift of salvation.
That is how faith is not credited as meritorious in any way.
The opposite view is that God elects based on knowing whom would believe the gospel beforehand. This view is a total hand grenade thrown into the free grace salvation because salvation becomes determined by man's choice. And that choice cannot be made by man because man is utterly and completely lost in sin.
In this the Calvinists are right. Where they go wrong is when they try and force an explanation to the question of how does man's part of believing harmonize with God's divine sovereignty. Their logical conclusion (not supported by scripture) is that the elect were never lost, and were always saved
even before they believed.
That sounds logical and I might have believed that if I did not study the scriptures that leave man with difficult questions that are not answered by the word.
It does not matter what makes the most sense to the obedient servant of God, it only matters what the scriptures say on any given subject even if it does not make sense in this life.
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1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Not just unlikely, they looked.
In this passage the nearest antecedent is the abomination of desolation. The generation that will witness that event that we are told takes place in the mid point of the tribulation will know that Messiah will return to earth 3 and a 1/2 years from that day.
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