ECT Grace: God isn't mad at sin, or just isn't doing anything about it at the moment?

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
I'm reminded of a Roman Catholic I once knew many years ago, who once lamented "how weary" she had "grown over the years, having to pay up year after year" in her "hoping it might be enough to get" her "husband out of purgatory..."

As then, so now - the following passage came to mind...

Matthew 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Rom. 5:8
I can't believe some of the misunderstanding and ignorance among Catholics sometimes. There's never any risk of getting stuck in purgatory---being in purgatory guarantees that you're eternally secure already. Purgatory shares the root word found in purge, it purges you, it's a purifying fire, which is fueled by our deeds done in the body. 2nd Corinthians 5:10 (KJV) The fire is burning up the immoral things we've done, are doing, and will do in this old body. Indulgences granted by the Body of Christ, relieve us from this burning.

The reason I say I love purgatory, is because no matter how grueling or long in duration, the end result is that I am made to be as pure gold, which is the most prominent color found in the eternal kingdom.
 

musterion

Well-known member
An irate Catholic woman called in to a Christian radio show (Dave Hunt or someone was on the air) and screamed that they were going to Hell and warned, "Saint Peter will say, 'Depart from me, I never knew you!'" She was dead serious.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
An irate Catholic woman called in to a Christian radio show (Dave Hunt or someone was on the air) and screamed that they were going to Hell and warned, "Saint Peter will say, 'Depart from me, I never knew you!'" She was dead serious.
I believe it. That's not to say that there aren't a lot of Catholics who really do know their stuff, but there are a lot, who don't.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
Limbo is better.
Doesn't limbo mean, that you're not sure what's going to happen, or where you're going to go? That's not in purgatory, everybody in purgatory is a Christian and will live forever in the eternal kingdom, as soon as they're shining like polished pure gold.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
I can't believe some of the misunderstanding and ignorance among Catholics sometimes. There's never any risk of getting stuck in purgatory---being in purgatory guarantees that you're eternally secure already. Purgatory shares the root word found in purge, it purges you, it's a purifying fire, which is fueled by our deeds done in the body. 2nd Corinthians 5:10 (KJV) The fire is burning up the immoral things we've done, are doing, and will do in this old body. Indulgences granted by the Body of Christ, relieve us from this burning.

The reason I say I love purgatory, is because no matter how grueling or long in duration, the end result is that I am made to be as pure gold, which is the most prominent color found in the eternal kingdom.

Hi and your last paragraph is more than suspect , as there is no Greek word for PURGATORY !!

Can you explain how anyone gets out of your PURGING place ??

In 1 Cor 3:15 itis WORKS that go through the FIRE !!

dan p
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Doesn't limbo mean, that you're not sure what's going to happen, or where you're going to go? That's not in purgatory, everybody in purgatory is a Christian and will live forever in the eternal kingdom, as soon as they're shining like polished pure gold.

Both are baloney. limbo is believed to be where unbaptized babies go, if they die. No presence of God, but no hell either; they live on and on as babies, so I was told my a Catholic priest many year ago.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
What counts is how many of them believe the Gospel of the grace of God?

Not one.
Who knows how many Catholics believe that the Lord's Resurrection is nonfiction? But I do know that the crucifix is the symbol found most frequently, if you ask, How do Catholics remember that He is risen? Catholics remember it with the crucifix, which reminds us of why He died in the first place. And communion/the Eucharist, is celebrated every day, sometimes more than once every day, in some Catholic parish churches. And isn't that remembering 1st Corinthians 15:3 (KJV)? I think it is. :idunno:
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
Hi and your last paragraph is more than suspect , as there is no Greek word for PURGATORY !!

Can you explain how anyone gets out of your PURGING place ??

In 1 Cor 3:15 itis WORKS that go through the FIRE !!

dan p
That's an awesome scripture also Dan, thank you. :e4e:
 

musterion

Well-known member
Doesn't limbo mean, that you're not sure what's going to happen, or where you're going to go? That's not in purgatory, everybody in purgatory is a Christian and will live forever in the eternal kingdom, as soon as they're shining like polished pure gold.

False. Paul says the believer is perfect in Christ, from Whom there is no separation. You've believed a lie.
 

musterion

Well-known member
Who knows how many Catholics believe that the Lord's Resurrection is nonfiction? But I do know that the crucifix is the symbol found most frequently, if you ask, How do Catholics remember that He is risen? Catholics remember it with the crucifix, which reminds us of why He died in the first place. And communion/the Eucharist, is celebrated every day, sometimes more than once every day, in some Catholic parish churches. And isn't that remembering 1st Corinthians 15:3 (KJV)? I think it is. :idunno:

Catholics never argue that He rose. Where you are lost is refusing to believe the Bible's witness of the totality of YOUR sins having been placed upon HIM, ALONE, with nothing left that you need to help with.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
False. Paul says the believer is perfect in Christ, from Whom there is no separation. You've believed a lie.
Paul also says 1st Corinthians 3:15 (KJV):
Paul said:
If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Why would a believer suffer loss, given that they are perfect in Christ? I agree that we are perfect in Christ, and I believe in purgatory. Scripture supports both, to my eyes.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Paul also says 1st Corinthians 3:15 (KJV):
Why would a believer suffer loss, given that they are perfect in Christ? I agree that we are perfect in Christ, and I believe in purgatory. Scripture supports both, to my eyes.


Hi and the answer is in 1 Cor 3:10-15 and it is concered with WORDS done in the flesh while here on earth !!

dan p
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
Catholics never argue that He rose.
Do you mean that Catholics never preach the Gospel? I agree almost completely, but there are some exceptions, and those preachers, IMO, are the most compelling evangelists for certain audiences, among them very deep thinking Protestants, that are out there.
Where you are lost is refusing to believe the Bible's witness of the totality of YOUR sins having been placed upon HIM, ALONE, with nothing left that you need to help with.
Sins divide between grave sins and light sins, and whether their penalty due us for them, is eternal, or only temporal (believers/Christians). We deserve both eternal and temporal punishment for our sins, but Christ has offered us effectively a plenary indulgence wrt the eternal punishments, penalties, and consequences, for both our light and grave sins. We still owe temporal debts, unless those are forgiven, and that is what an indulgence is. It is forgiveness of temporal debts, indulgence is not of an eternal nature. Indulgences can help those souls in purgatory now, and those souls who have not reached purgatory yet, and unbelievers, since even unbelievers can be forgiven their temporal debts they have incurred for their sins.
 

Danoh

New member
Paul also says 1st Corinthians 3:15 (KJV):
Why would a believer suffer loss, given that they are perfect in Christ? I agree that we are perfect in Christ, and I believe in purgatory. Scripture supports both, to my eyes.

You have that skewed.

The loss referred to there is the loss of rewards; which is the issue of various ranks and privileges that are an aspect of one's service within the Kingdom of Heaven in Glory one day.

There is the Inheritance, or Eternal Life.

And that is settled.

And then there is the Reward of the Inheritance (of said Inheritance).

It is comprised of various ranks and priveleges within the various offices of service in God's Kingdom in Heaven itself.

The Judgment Seat of Christ will determine who will be rewarded with what rank and what privelege, and who will be rewarded with less, that is; who will suffer loss of what could have been a greater rank and or reward as a servant in the service of God, in His Kingdom, that could have been his and unto the Son's glory in our glory, but for one's chosen values, words, and conduct in the here and now.

Values, words, and conduct, here will impact that then.

Values, words and conduct becoming of a son of God will work an eternal weight of glory, or in Glory now, and unto that day in Glory when said weight of glory will be revealed so as by the fire of the Lord's rightly divided Word.

Values, words and conduct becoming the course of this world will result in loss of said rewards.

It is an ever fascinating study all on its own - this study of what Heaven and its Glory will be like.

Just a matter of catching a glimpse of it in the Scripture rightly divided, followed by determining to study out all that the Scripture says about it, not only in word, but also in similarity in function with the much more detailed description of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth described in Scripture.

For the things not seen are understood by the things that are, so that one is without excuse as to why one is unaware of what's what in Scripture as to these things...that differ.

Admittedly, it is Advanced Mid-Acts.

Thus, one has to at least come to a place where one's Mid-Acts schematic is basically up and running, and then some.

But even Darby saw some of these things before he was "Dispensational" - so its not like these things are not in the Scripture for anyone willing seek them out, to begin to understand them.

What little Darby had understood about this very issue was exactly what caused him to begin to break away more and more from the traditions of men.

Nihilo, put away your Catechism.

Try the Bible alone, for a good two or three years...to begin with.

Nevertheless, Romans 5:8 towards you.

For that passage is not so much about the Cross as it is about what one's perspective towards life and others can now be, because of the Cross.

Thus, though I strongly disagree with various of your stated, nevertheless, Christ died for both our foul ups.

So the Grace of Romans 5 towards you in the hope that you come to that Grace for you that cost the Son His Life in your stead.

Put away your treadmill and get to committing to memory Gal. 3:1-3 and verse 5.

Then get to believing those passages.
 
Top