God Predestinates Billions To Hell Before They Are Born ???

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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
What a terrible thing to believe about God.

The Bible teaches no such thing. You didn't get that out of the Bible. That came out of the twisted mind of a heretic back in the 1500's by the name of John Calvin, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of innocent people that opposed him.

All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament people are justified by faith in God and in his promise of a savior.

"Abraham believed God and it was counted into him for righteousness" Romans 4:3.

Believing that God predestinates billions to hell before they are born is NOT saving faith. It is just the opposite of saving faith, it is blaspheme against God and his Son Jesus Christ. You don't have to have a degree in theology to know that those who believe that God does such a horrible thing as that are NOT Christians.

The God that so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16. Is now going to damn billions to hell before they are born. Something is wrong there and it is not with God or Christ. It is with those that have the same twisted mind as John Calvin.

How could anyone possibly love and have faith in a God that would do such a horrible thing? The answer is they don't. What they have faith in is a doctrine where they believe that they are God's special chosen people and everyone else is the scum of the earth. The Pharisees also believed that they were God's special chosen people and everyone else was worthy of hell. If you want to know what Jesus thought of them read Matthew the 23rd chapter.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
What a terrible thing to believe about God.

The Bible teaches no such thing. You didn't get that out of the Bible. That came out of the twisted mind of a heretic back in the 1500's by the name of John Calvin, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of innocent people that opposed him.

All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament people are justified by faith in God and in his promise of a savior.

"Abraham believed God and it was counted into him for righteousness" Romans 4:3.

Believing that God predestinates billions to hell before they are born is NOT saving faith. It is just the opposite of saving faith, it is blaspheme against God and his Son Jesus Christ. You don't have to have a degree in theology to know that those who believe that God does such a horrible thing as that are NOT Christians.

The God that so loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son, John 3:16. Is now going to damn billions to hell before they are born. Something is wrong there and it is not with God or Christ. It is with those that have the same twisted mind as John Calvin.

How could anyone possibly love and have faith in a God that would do such a horrible thing? The answer is they don't. What they have faith in is a doctrine where they believe that they are God's special chosen people and everyone else is the scum of the earth. The Pharisees also believed that they were God's special chosen people and everyone else was worthy of hell. If you want to know what Jesus thought of them read Matthew the 23rd chapter.
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Talking evil about God's ways !
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
serpentdove said:
No, that's double pre-destination and that's not what Calvinists teach.

See:

What is double predestination?
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Council of Dort. FIRST HEAD ARTICLE #15. "While others are passed by in the eternal decree: whom God out of his sovereign, most just, irreprehensible and unchangable good pleasure, has decreed to leave in the common misery into which they willfully plunged themselves, and NOT to bestow upon them saving faith and the grace of conversion; but permitting them in his just judgment to follow their own ways, at last, for the declaration of his judgment, to condemn and punish them forever."
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
Robert Pate said:
[Double Predestination, Calvinists] Council of Dort. FIRST HEAD ARTICLE #15. "While others are passed by in the eternal decree: whom God out of his sovereign, most just, irreprehensible and unchangable good pleasure, has decreed to leave in the common misery into which they willfully plunged themselves, and NOT to bestow upon them saving faith and the grace of conversion; but permitting them in his just judgment to follow their own ways, at last, for the declaration of his judgment, to condemn and punish them forever."
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Not created for the purpose of being destroyed. :dizzy:
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
serpentdove said:
No, that's double pre-destination and that's not what Calvinists teach.
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Today one of the chief spokesmen for the Reformed view is Dr. R.C. Sproul and his following statement seems to teach double pre-destination:

"When someone mentions the term 'Calvinism,' the customary response is, 'Oh, you mean the doctrine of predestination?' This identification of Calvinism with predestination is as strange as it is real and widespread...In summary we may define 'predestination' broadly as follows: From all eternity God decided to save some members of the human race and to let the rest of the human race perish. God made a choice--he chose some individuals to be saved unto everlasting blessedness in heaven, and he chose others to pass over, allowing them to suffer the consequences of their sins, eternal punishment in hell" [emphasis added] (R.C. Sproul, What is Reformed Theology?[Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2005], 141).​
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
serpentdove said:
Not created for the purpose of being destroyed.
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The Westminister Confession of Faith represents a theological consensus of international Calvinism. There we read that all men come out of the womb "made opposite to all good and wholly inclined to all evil":

"From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions" [emphasis added] (The Westminster Confession of Faith; VI/4).​

The Calvinists teach that this so-called "universal corruption of mankind" is conveyed to all men by "ordinary generation."

If the Calvinists are right then God punishes mankind for doing the very things which He designed them to do:

"...the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds...unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil" (Ro.2:5-6,8-9).​

Sir Robert Anderson writes, "As the Westminster Divines express it, 'We are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good.' This theology obviously impugns the righteousness of God in punishing men for their sins. In fact, it represents Him as a tyrant who punishes the lame for limping and the blind for losing their way" (Anderson, Misundersood Texts of the New Testament [Grand Rapids: Kregel, 1991], 75).
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
Jerry Shugart said:
Today one of the chief spokesmen for the Reformed view is Dr. R.C. Sproul and his following statement seems to teach double pre-destination:

"When someone mentions the term 'Calvinism,' the customary response is, 'Oh, you mean the doctrine of predestination?' This identification of Calvinism with predestination is as strange as it is real and widespread...In summary we may define 'predestination' broadly as follows: From all eternity God decided to save some members of the human race and to let the rest of the human race perish. God made a choice--he chose some individuals to be saved unto everlasting blessedness in heaven, and he chose others to pass over, allowing them to suffer the consequences of their sins, eternal punishment in hell" [emphasis added] (R.C. Sproul, What is Reformed Theology?[Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2005], 141).​
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That's not double predestination. The Calvinist in general teaches that God won't bother to woo and win some individuals to himself. They never happen to be one of these individuals. :dizzy: The Calvinist must be pretty lazy in his prayer life because he can't change God's mind about anything. Examples of intercessory prayer (Moses [Ex. 32:11–13], Joshua [Josh. 7:6–9], Jehoshaphat [2 Chr. 20:5–13], Isaiah [2 Chr. 32:20], Daniel [Dan. 9:3–19], Christ [John 17:1–26], Paul [Col. 1:9–12]). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (pp. 319–320). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
serpentdove said:
That's not double predestination.
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It does indeed speak of what the Lord does which predetermines the fate of some men.

"God made a choice--he chose some individuals to be saved unto everlasting blessedness in heaven, and he chose others to pass over, allowing them to suffer the consequences of their sins, eternal punishment in hell."​

According to Sproul it is the Lord's "choice" which is directly responsibility for predermining that some people will be punished in hell.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Jerry

According to Sproul it is the Lord's "choice" which is directly responsibility for predermining that some people will be punished in hell.
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I have to agree with him on that in light of the scripture Prov 16:4 ; Rom 9:22
 
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