Cross Reference
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. . . . . He doesn't have to.
<this should be a shorted lived thread>
<this should be a shorted lived thread>
ECT God never predestines anyone to hell.
- Thread starter Cross Reference
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Don't tell that to Beloved 57 and Nanja.
oatmeal
Well-known member
John 3:18-21
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Cross Reference
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And what does it say in the OT __ or doesn't that count??
oatmeal
Well-known member
Jesus spoke of OT folk:
Matthew 23:29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, KJV "Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets (OT), and garnish the sepulchers of the righteous, 30) and say, IF we had been in the days of our fathers (OT), we would not have ben partakers with them in the blood of the prophets (OT). 31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets (OT). 32) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers (OT). 33) Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34) Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets (OT), and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall (future) kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city. 35) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel..." 36) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation (since Genesis 3:8 KJV)."
Maybe not predestined, CR... but, certainly a generation with a rather adversarial predisposition.
kayaker
Word based mystic
New member
1 timothy 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
His desire for his created children is that (all) men.
not in the universalist sense because that would contradict justice and other aspects of Gods will.
Christ/the Word/creator limited his (omniscience) in order to give the free will aspect to man as well as maintain the fatherly love He has as he created his children.
For no Father would birth a child knowing that that child is bound for destruction.
But rather the Word incarnate in the material world limits his knowledge of the end of His children.
Only the father in Spirit form knows the end of those created. This self imposed limitation on omniscience allows for all the factors of free will, fatherly love and desire that all men would be saved aspects to be allowed.
Complete foreknowledge is only the Father part of the trinity. Thus letting The Son to both create and have loving intent to all men. Giving them free will. And wooing them with His love with the hope that all men would be drawn back to Him.
His desire for his created children is that (all) men.
not in the universalist sense because that would contradict justice and other aspects of Gods will.
Christ/the Word/creator limited his (omniscience) in order to give the free will aspect to man as well as maintain the fatherly love He has as he created his children.
For no Father would birth a child knowing that that child is bound for destruction.
But rather the Word incarnate in the material world limits his knowledge of the end of His children.
Only the father in Spirit form knows the end of those created. This self imposed limitation on omniscience allows for all the factors of free will, fatherly love and desire that all men would be saved aspects to be allowed.
Complete foreknowledge is only the Father part of the trinity. Thus letting The Son to both create and have loving intent to all men. Giving them free will. And wooing them with His love with the hope that all men would be drawn back to Him.
They'll both say in unison; "See ya at the judgment!"
The ONLY way someone winds up in, "The Lake of Fire" is, those who have
rejected God's Grace through Christ, and whose names are not written in,
"The Lambs Book of Life!"
rejected God's Grace through Christ, and whose names are not written in,
"The Lambs Book of Life!"
Livelystone
New member
Being as no one stands before the judgement seat before they die, what is it you think they are condemend to?
I say they are already condemned unto death even while they still live. Because of this they are also condemned unto sin while living their lives serving the whims and desires of the prince and power of the air.
Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it
We are all created with, "Free-will Choice" to place our faith in
anything we so desire! Calvinists will disagree with what I say,
"Vehemently!" We choose, God doesn't choose for us!
Just show the scripture, that will suffice
oatmeal
Well-known member
They are condemned to whatever believing on the name of the only begotten son of God uncondemns them from.
Keep on reading and let Jesus Christ explain it:
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
We see the ability to choose throughout ALL of the Bible! Where
shall I begin? I don't think the Mods would appreciate it, if I
started "cutting and pasting" the entire New and Old Testament?
So, I'll let you read/study the entire Bible, word for word, cover
to cover! And, ask; God the Father to give you wisdom to see
that, mankind has a 'free-will' of his own!
When I look at the "Written Word of God," I see 'free-will' everywhere!
When the "Calvinists" read the same written word, they see NONE! Is it
just some "uncanny anomaly" or what?
When the "Calvinists" read the same written word, they see NONE! Is it
just some "uncanny anomaly" or what?
Word based mystic
New member
1 timothy 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Ignoring the above scripture and the desire and means that were put into place by Christ and his death is what some of you are doing here.
Gods Gentleness, kindness, love, longsuffering is not well developed in those who would only focus on certain scriptures and certain thought processes and through not taking all the scriptures within the main themes of Gods will and scriptural focus.
Gods main theme and hierarchy of scriptural importance is critical when developing minor doctrines such as we discuss here.
The main themes of Love, long-suffering, patience, and Christs Sacrifice so that Whomsoever would come is the weighty consideration in this discussion.
Continually the Heavenly Father puts into place patience and many opportunities for men before judgement. Continually forgiving israel and foregoing judgement like in ninevah if individuals and communities would repent.
Ignoring the above scripture and the desire and means that were put into place by Christ and his death is what some of you are doing here.
Gods Gentleness, kindness, love, longsuffering is not well developed in those who would only focus on certain scriptures and certain thought processes and through not taking all the scriptures within the main themes of Gods will and scriptural focus.
Gods main theme and hierarchy of scriptural importance is critical when developing minor doctrines such as we discuss here.
The main themes of Love, long-suffering, patience, and Christs Sacrifice so that Whomsoever would come is the weighty consideration in this discussion.
Continually the Heavenly Father puts into place patience and many opportunities for men before judgement. Continually forgiving israel and foregoing judgement like in ninevah if individuals and communities would repent.
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The shorter answer was "uh I cain't find one"
You might have quoted that one "Choose you this day whom you will serve"
Was that one?
Cross Reference
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Cross Reference
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And whose fault would that be, God's? I don't think so __ do you? He would have all men come to Him.