ECT glorydaz says that Romans is Written to Unbelievers

[Jerry Shugart]

In short, I am done with you until you are the one now who has to meet a condition – cut your nonsense out.

I am not under any condition from you. I hope that you will actually leave this forum because you add nothing to this subject.

 

[tetelestai]

Come on believers!

Is the epistle to the Romans written to believers or non-believers?

Romans is written to believers.

The verse in question "shall be saved" is a reference to Christ's appearance in 70AD.

In the OC, the High Priest slew the animal, took the blood into the Holy of Holies, and returned to the people from behind the curtain. This appearance by the High Priest let the people know that God had accepted the atonement.

In the NC, Christ Jesus (the High Priest) was the sacrificial animal, entered the perfect Holy of Holies in Heaven with His own blood, then appeared before the people in 70AD to let the people know that God had accepted the atonement.

(Mark 16:16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

(Acts 16:31) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Prior to 70AD believers were sealed.

 

[tetelestai]

"Truest
Believers" on TOL!!

What is a "Truest Believer"?

People are either believers or unbelievers.

Being a believer is an absolute. You're either one, or you're not.

There is no such thing as a "Truest Believer"

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If he is writing to believers only, why such passages as Romans 10:9-10?

Those verses cannot be taken in isolation from the context. Paul quotes those verses to inform the believers what he preaches:

"But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" (Ro.10:8-9).​

He is telling these believers what he preaches to the unsaved--"the word of faith which we preach."

Not only that, after Paul explained what He preached to the unbelievers He then calls unbelievers "they" which he would not do if his words are being addressed to unbelievers:

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" (Ro.10:14).​

If this was addressed to unbelievers then it would read:

"How then shall you call on him in whom you have not believed? and how shall youbelieve in him of whom you have not heard? and how shall you hear without a preacher?"​

That is not what Paul wrote so it is obvious that He was not addressing the unsaved.

 

[God's Truth]

On another thread I said that the epistle to the Romans was written to believers.

In response, glorydaz said this:

"You SHALL BE SAVED" rules out your claim this is written to believers.​

Of course she was referring to this passage:

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life" (Ro.5:9-10).​

I told her this:

The phase "You SHALL BE SAVED" is referring to the fact that our earthly bodies will be delivered from infirmity which comes on it when we will put on glorious bodies just like the Lord Jesus' glorious body.​

I also said:

I find it impossible that the epistle to the Romans was written to unbelievers, as witnessed by what Paul says here:

"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Ro.1:7-8).​

Paul tells those who received this epistle "your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."

Despite this evidence that the epistle was written to believers glorydaz continues to insist that it was written to unbelievers.

I have seen no one on this forum who is more confused that glorydaz.

What do you people say? Was it written to believers or unbelievers?

The whole Bible is for all who want to be saved and for those who are saved.

 

[Angel4Truth]

On another thread I said that the epistle to the Romans was written to believers.

In response, glorydaz said this:

"You SHALL BE SAVED" rules out your claim this is written to believers.​

Of course she was referring to this passage:

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life" (Ro.5:9-10).​

I told her this:

The phase "You SHALL BE SAVED" is referring to the fact that our earthly bodies will be delivered from infirmity which comes on it when we will put on glorious bodies just like the Lord Jesus' glorious body.​

I also said:

I find it impossible that the epistle to the Romans was written to unbelievers, as witnessed by what Paul says here:

"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Ro.1:7-8).​

Paul tells those who received this epistle "your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."

Despite this evidence that the epistle was written to believers glorydaz continues to insist that it was written to unbelievers.

I have seen no one on this forum who is more confused that glorydaz.

What do you people say? Was it written to believers or unbelievers?

Please link to her post (quote the post you reference in full, copy it here) that states what you claimed here so we can see all of the context.

It appears deceptive that you are making a claim, without her post.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Please link to her post (quote the post you reference in full, copy it here) that states what you claimed here so we can see all of the context.

It appears deceptive that you are making a claim, without her post.

Go to her thread titled: "The Gospel n Romans 10" in the "Christians Only" part of the forum and then go to page #10, Post #149.

 

[glorydaz]

On another thread I said that the epistle to the Romans was written to believers.

In response, glorydaz said this:

"You SHALL BE SAVED" rules out your claim this is written to believers.​

Of course she was referring to this passage:

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life" (Ro.5:9-10).​

​

I told her this:

The phase "You SHALL BE SAVED" is referring to the fact that our earthly bodies will be delivered from infirmity which comes on it when we will put on glorious bodies just like the Lord Jesus' glorious body.​

I also said:

I find it impossible that the epistle to the Romans was written to unbelievers, as witnessed by what Paul says here:

"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Ro.1:7-8).​

Paul tells those who received this epistle "your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."

Despite this evidence that the epistle was written to believers glorydaz continues to insist that it was written to unbelievers.

I have seen no one on this forum who is more confused that glorydaz.

What do you people say? Was it written to believers or unbelievers?

Please link to her post (quote the post you reference in full, copy it here) that states what you claimed here so we can see all of the context.

It appears deceptive that you are making a claim, without her post.

This is Jerry's MO. Twist to deceive. "Of course she was referring to this passage" - Romans 5:9-10


When, in fact, I was referring to this passage in Romans 10.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.​

And considering my thread is dealing with Romans 10........:juggle:

 

[glorydaz]

Go to her thread titled: "The Gospel n Romans 10" in the "Christians Only" part of the forum and then go to page #10, Post #149.

Jerry, you really should stop. You're only making a bigger fool of yourself than you already have. :nono:

 

[HisServant]

Given the doctrinal nature of Romans, its pretty safe to say that it was written to existing believers, to quell some doctrinal issues and antisemitism that was common in Rome at the time.

In the end, he is asking support in his desire to go to Spain to preach the Gospel... you wouldn't ask non-Christians for support, would you?

Romans hold up pretty good textually, except for the last two chapters which have some scholars debating over who the author is.

 

[glorydaz]

Given the doctrinal nature of Romans, its pretty safe to say that it was written to existing believers, to quell some doctrinal issues and antisemitism that was common in Rome at the time.

In the end, he is asking support in his desire to go to Spain to preach the Gospel... you wouldn't ask non-Christians for support, would you?

Romans hold up pretty good textually, except for the last two chapters which have some scholars debating over who the author is.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[HisServant]

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

So, he is reinforcing a doctrine that they already new but were integrating with some of the other pre-christian religions.... there was a huge contingent in Rome that were arguing for universal salvation.

Universal salvation would preclude confession.

Then you have to reconcile the beginning of that chapter also.

Brothers,1 my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Paul is reminding them of the origins of their faith... the audience is already assumed to be believers.

 

[glorydaz]

So, he is reinforcing a doctrine that they already new but were integrating with some of the other pre-christian religions.... there was a huge contingent in Rome that were arguing for universal salvation.

Universal salvation would preclude confession.

Reinforcing what doctrine, and who was it directed to?

 

[glorydaz]

So, he is reinforcing a doctrine that they already new but were integrating with some of the other pre-christian religions.... there was a huge contingent in Rome that were arguing for universal salvation.

Universal salvation would preclude confession.

Who will be saved if they believe in their heart that Jesus was raised from the dead?

 

[HisServant]

Reinforcing what doctrine, and who was it directed to?

Those already saved in Rome.

 

[HisServant]

Who will be saved if they believe in their heart that Jesus was raised from the dead?

Those who believe with their hearts.

Rome had broken down Christianity to an intellectual pursuit, thus concluding in universal salvation. (i.e. one did not need to confess and believe).

 

[glorydaz]

Those already saved in Rome.

So, I would tell those who are already saved that IF they believe in their heart that Jesus was raised from the dead they shall be saved?

Alrighty then. :juggle:

 

[HisServant]

So, I would tell those who are already saved that IF they believe in their heart that Jesus was raised from the dead they shall be saved?

Alrighty then. :juggle:

They had forgotten that and need to be reminded. They were also spreading wrong beliefs to others.

In essence, they were preaching another Gospel which Paul needed to stop.

Were you truly unable to comprehend the beginning of that chapter?

 

[glorydaz]

Those who believe with their hearts.

Rome had broken down Christianity to an intellectual pursuit, thus concluding in universal salvation. (i.e. one did not need to confess and believe).

I can see this simple text has become an intellectual pursuit.

 

[glorydaz]

They had forgotten that and need to be reminded. They were also spreading wrong beliefs to others.

In essence, they were preaching another Gospel which Paul needed to stop.

Were you truly unable to comprehend the beginning of that chapter?

They had forgotten that Jesus was raised from the dead?