ECT glorydaz says that Romans is Written to Unbelievers

[Jerry Shugart]

She is a great witness [and I've had rows with her] but she gives a good witness for the Lord.

Do you agree with her that the epistle to the Romans was written to unbelievers?

 

[glorydaz]

Do you agree with her that the epistle to the Romans was written to unbelievers?

And there is the LIE. I never said the "epistle to the Romans" was written to the unbeliever. You have repeated this lie over and over again in my thread about Romans chapter 10. And the verses I was referring to were those concerning being "saved".

Your claim is that these verses (in chapter 10) were talking about believers receiving their glorified bodies in the future, not about someone being SAVED.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

Check your trusty steed, O man, and read Romans Chapter 2 before claiming the "epistle of the Romans" was written to believers ONLY.





And the really funny part of this is that Jerry got mad at me because I dared to compliment Danoh on something he had posted. Jerry is jealous, I guess. So be careful, folks, you shouldn't catch the eye of this rabid dog who calls himself Jerry Shugart.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

And there is the LIE. I never said the "epistle to the Romans" was written to the unbeliever. You have repeated this lie over and over again in my thread about Romans chapter 10. And the verses I was referring to were those concerning being "saved".

Your claim is that these verses (in chapter 10) were talking about believers receiving their glorified bodies in the future, not about someone being SAVED.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

Check your trusty steed, O man, and read Romans Chapter 2 before claiming the "epistle of the Romans" was written to believers ONLY.





And the really funny part of this is that Jerry got mad at me because I dared to compliment Danoh on something he had posted. Jerry is jealous, I guess. So be careful, folks, you shouldn't catch the eye of this rabid dog who calls himself Jerry Shugart.

True!

 

[Bright Raven]

If it was written to both, then I cannot understand why Paul would say this:

"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Ro.1:7-8).​

That would be a strange way for Paul to begin his epistle if he was addressing both believers and non-believers.

And do you believe Paul's words here are addressed to unbelievers?:

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God" (Romans 5:1-2).​

If he is writing to believers only, why such passages as Romans 10:9-10?

 

[glorydaz]

If it was written to both, then I cannot understand why Paul would say this:

"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Ro.1:7-8).​

That would be a strange way for Paul to begin his epistle if he was addressing both believers and non-believers.

And do you believe Paul's words here are addressed to unbelievers?:

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God" (Romans 5:1-2).​

Of course the guy sitting beside you in the pew is saved....without a doubt, and those who walk in darkness are saved, too....according to you. I'm sure Paul knew some people "say" they walk in the light but are in darkness "even now". You make the same mistake in 1 John 1.

Romans 2:2-3
2 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?​

Paul seems to be addressing "whosoever" fits the "thou and thy" profile. :think:

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Romans 2:17-18 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;​

 

[glorydaz]

What dishonesty?

All you can do on this forum is follow glorydaz around and parrot what she says.

If you are going to accuse me of being dishonest then give your proof.

There's another lie. Stop it, Jerry. All this because I happened to compliment Danoh on a post. It was a thread he started and you bullied your way into. It started there and if you had an ounce of decency, you'd admit it and move on.

 

[glorydaz]

Notice how Jerry keeps side stepping the obvious, focused instead on his incessant need to corner one and all into his attempts to prove them wrong about one issue or another.

Just watch him respond to this post from his actual agenda once more.

Bait away, Jerry...

You were there, Danoh. Did I ever say the (entire) epistle to the Romans was written to unbelievers? That is exactly what he is working so hard to get people to think. My thread was very specific to chapter 10, and very specific verses in that chapter.


I'm thinking he caught us in the diner late one night while he was at Bible study. That's the only thing that explains his behaviour.

 

[glorydaz]

If he is writing to believers only, why such passages as Romans 10:9-10?

Exactly. Thank you, Bright Raven. Jerry says that is talking about believers being given their new bodies. :chew:

 

[glorydaz]

I think Glorydaz should be flogged.

She is a great witness [and I've had rows with her] but she gives a good witness for the Lord.

I have been flogged, every since Jerry caught me making eyes at Danoh. Ever seen that movie, Sleeping with the Enemy with Julia Roberts?

 

[glorydaz]

Go ahead, and bray like a jack___, Jerry. And nice use the 2 Tim. passage, in the wrong context. If it's not, then go ahead, and lay it out for us. That is, we are all busy men/women-tell us,that D of G:


-does not preach sound doctrine
-turns others from the truth
-fits "after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"
-turns others to fables

You know, or should know, what the issue/context Paul was addressing in 2 Tim. KJV, or you should know. And it's not what of which you are accusing G of D.


Now, I'm telling you. Apologize to her, and close this thread. "Quit yourself" like a man.

Let me guess: You won't, as you are always right-right, Jerry? That is your MO on TOL.

This is why you should be "Mod for a Day" (or a year). :thumb:

 

[musterion]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCM6TZgTMI

Emphasis on MAD.

:sigh:

 

[john w]

This is why you should be "Mod for a Day" (or a year). :thumb:

Thanks, D of G. You need no defending, especially from me; however, someone needs to put this ignorant blowhard JS in line, for a w/o cause accusation against you, a valiant soldier, and for "making a big deal about nothing," because he's bored, and thinks he knows everything/is always right. There is no other reasonable(Is. 1:18 KJV) explanation/motive for this.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And there is the LIE. I never said the "epistle to the Romans" was written to the unbeliever. You have repeated this lie over and over again in my thread about Romans chapter 10. And the verses I was referring to were those concerning being "saved".

No, your response was to me saying that the epistle to the Romans was written to unbelievers.

And you searched the epistle to the Hebrews and said:

You SHALL BE SAVED" rules out your claim this is written to believers.​

Again, my claim was that the epistle to the Romans was written to believers.

Your claim is that these verses (in chapter 10) were talking about believers receiving their glorified bodies in the future, not about someone being SAVED.

That is how I answered your words about "shall be saved." But that is not the claim that you referred to here:

You SHALL BE SAVED" rules out your claim this is written to believers.​

Here is the claim I made which you refer to there:

The things said in the tenth chapter of Romans are addressed to those who are already saved.​

Since the tenth chapter of Romans is addressed to believers then the whole epistle is addressed to believers.

]Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Paul quotes those verses to inform the believers what he preaches:

"But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" (Ro.10:8-9).​

Paul was not telling that they must do those things in order to be saved because they were already saved. Instead, He was telling them what He preaches to the unsaved.

Check your trusty steed, O man, and read Romans Chapter 2 before claiming the "epistle of the Romans" was written to believers ONLY.

First you said that it was not written to believers and now you say that it wasn't written to believers only!

Nothing is said in chapter two which even hints that Paul is addressing non-believers. Of course Paul tells us exactly who he is addressing his words but you refuse to believe him:

"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Ro.1:7-8).

Only you can read that and declare the following:

You SHALL BE SAVED" rules out your claim this is written to believers.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Of course the guy sitting beside you in the pew is saved....without a doubt, and those who walk in darkness are saved, too....according to you. I'm sure Paul knew some people "say" they walk in the light but are in darkness "even now". You make the same mistake in 1 John 1.

No, it is you who makes the mistake in 1 John 1. You repeat your mistake and say that unbelievers are being addressed in these verses:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" (1 Jn.1:9-10).​

From the beginning of the chapter to its end the pronoun "we" is referring to believers:

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us" (1 Jn.1:1-2).​

You never have explained why anyone should believe that the pronoun "we" refers to one group at the beginning of the chapter and then later in the same chapter the same pronoun "we" refers to a different group.That is just another example of how you mangle the Scriptures.

 

[john w]

That is just another example of how you mangle the Scriptures.

I told you to knock off the spam, such as the above, which you send to almost everyone.


Am I clear?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If he is writing to believers only, why such passages as Romans 10:9-10?

Those verses cannot be taken in isolation from the context. Paul quotes those verses to inform the believers what he preaches:

"But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" (Ro.10:8-9).​

He is telling these believers what he preaches to the unsaved--"the word of faith which we preach."

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I told you to knock off the spam, such as the above, which you send to almost everyone.

Am I clear?

You are clear but why do you think that you have the authority to give me orders?

I would think that you would want to prove by the Scriptures that what I said in answer to glorydaz is in error. Or perhaps you aren't up to it?

 

[john w]

You are clear but why do you think that you have the authority to give me orders?

Because I have authority, clout, presence, on this board(besides my humility)-you do not:


Your page:
This page has had 483 visits

Vs.

My page:

This page has had 15,385 visits


Quite a contrast.

I would think that you would want to prove by the Scriptures that what I said in answer to glorydaz is in error. Or perhaps you aren't up to it?

Another one of your pat spams, that you send to almost everyone.


You're boring me.


Knock it off.

And close this thread, apologize-quit like a man. Do it.

 

[Danoh]

The real issue, GD, is Jerry’s having mis-read your words as he saw fit, as he always does with anyone he disagrees with. He then took his mis-read as your assertion:

See post # 153 below:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110932&page=11

He has also been twisting my words, as I have already related my understanding that Romans was written to both the lost and the saved.

See post # 175 below:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110932&page=12

Spoiler

To expand on it, in the following, Paul relates his writing to the Believers at Rome – Romans 1:

7. To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
9. For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
10. Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
11. For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
12. That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

But establishing Believers in the faith is not the fulness of His gospel among the Gentiles, there is also the hope he relates to them: his desire to preach Christ for salvation among the lost at Rome also:

13. Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14. I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15. So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Relating to them by Epistle his having been hindered from doing either of those two in person, he writes Romans towards said two-fold purpose.

He wants to see them that he might build them up in the further details of his gospel, but he also wants to have some fruit among the lost at Rome also.

Towards that, he launches into its issues, beginning with why God originally gave the Gentiles to their superstitions to begin with:

18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

That is right out of his preaching in Acts 17:

22. Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25. Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26. And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27. That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28. For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31. Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Romans 1-5 is the issue of Justification By Grace; 6-8, the issue of Living Under Grace; 9-11, the issue of the Dispensation of Grace; and 12-16, the issue of Serving Under Grace.

Within all that is the gospel of Christ as both the power of God unto Salvation to everyone that believeth; but also, the power of God to stablish the believer through this same Gospel. They cannot be separated because they are interconnected - saved from wrath by grace through faith, unto service by grace through faith.

Romans 5:

1. Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2. By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

7. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now you just watch this fool, Jerry Shugart twist all that in the very way he has been slandering Glorydaz for her having made the mistake of allowing herself to believe he actually wanted to explore these issues, not use them to toot his own horn once more.

In this, I leave you; Jerry, with the following from Romans 15:

17. Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

In short, I am done with you until you are the one now who has to meet a condition – cut your nonsense out.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Because I have authority, clout, presence, on this board(besides my humility)-you do not:

Only in your mind!